French Foreign Legion: Arms Contexts

[gp]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

David,

When you mention the 'riffs', does this refer to the Berber tribes in Morocco?
While the Foreign Legion was not officially situated in Morocco, they certainly had occasions for forays into these areas, and actually occupied Oudja, near the border.
It seems Berber tribesmen often had captured rifles, many of course Spanish Mausers, but also French weapons.
As always said, weapons transcend geographic borders, as well as cultural.

Thank you again!
Jim

there is more to it; the riff is actually ( a most beautiful) mountain region which was quite independent since the Romans and prior the Kingdom, when Sultans pf several dynasties rules the Magreb, the riff was not or hardly under the influance of the sultan with even a temporary Berber republic 1920 when the Spanish who had the North occupied and the many tribes ( > 20 became united, each Beni is a tribe...and it doesn't stop at the present border; it continues into Algeria where a century prior the riff wars, emir Abedelkadir united the riffians against the occupying forces : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emir_Abdelkader) and the Riff Republic under Muḥammad bin ‘Abd al-Karīm al-Khaṭṭābī,AKA Abd el-Krim , Arabic: عبد الكريم
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_el-Krim

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IYF8JUEAIQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DmlRWbD3DA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6etYtGtD1rM

Next to the fact that Morocco has not only many tribes but also many different peoples ( like Arabs, Berbers, riffians, etc.)
and many of whom joined the French Foreign Legion and also the spanish ( think of Franco's invasion into Spain during the Civil war)
https://foreignlegion.info/category/morocco/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroccan_Division_(France)

[gp]

to make it more complicated....during my 2 years stay in Morocco 1980/81, I travelled along the Atlantic coast from Tanger to Agadir ( also an Amizigh/Berber city) and noticed that all fortresses had canons with either Portugese or Dutch VOC marks on them....

Root cause: what Russia and the US is doing know, was done by the Dutch and Portugese since 1600/1700: biggest guntraders to the local sultans of the Magreb.
And also later by the English French rivalery, weapons of these two "culprits" can be found; whatever and by whomever was available, was sold and bought in the Magreb
Next to the plural dynasties

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6etYtGtD1rM

To add... as Spain occupied the North; the Riff , France made the rest of the country a protectorate since 1912 , locals joined the French army

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroccan_Goumier

This resulted in a huge variety of weapons...

when visiting Morocco, I can recommend to visit these fortresses and local museums like the Borj Nord Arms Museum in Fez
https://safarway.com/en/property/borj-nord_13752

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you so much GP for this brilliantly explained and detailed perspective and information on the complexities of the Maghreb! as well as the links and maps. This truly brings to light how these many weapon forms came into these regions and became so widely diffused.

In trying to determine the nationality of many of the indigenous weapons it seems nearly impossible to determine the nationality of them, let alone the regional or tribal affiliations. With the military weapons such as rifles as previously noted, the embellishments or added markings etc. are perhaps the only means of presumably reliable identification.

Your insights on this very esoteric area of study are so much appreciated here, especially with your field experience there in Morocco. That had to have been a remarkable time!!! This really helps. Thank you again,

All the best
Jim

[gp]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Thank you so much GP for this brilliantly explained and detailed perspective and information on the complexities of the Maghreb! as well as the links and maps. This truly brings to light how these many weapon forms came into these regions and became so widely diffused.

In trying to determine the nationality of many of the indigenous weapons it seems nearly impossible to determine the nationality of them, let alone the regional or tribal affiliations. With the military weapons such as rifles as previously noted, the embellishments or added markings etc. are perhaps the only means of presumably reliable identification.

Your insights on this very esoteric area of study are so much appreciated here, especially with your field experience there in Morocco. That had to have been a remarkable time!!! This really helps. Thank you again,

All the best
Jim

you're welcome and most happy to oblige!

It was indeed a wonderfull and interesting time, as a "teenybopper" following the song "Marrakesh Express" (by Graham Nash) and visting the places where Jimmi and the Stones stayed 10 to 15 years before I went.

Its culture and history is most interesting, next to its peoples.

Guess for us Europeans it was similar to the experience you folks in the good U S of A had when visiting Mexico in the same period.

It was grand till the mid 80ies. Best were the so-called "Fantasia" ; traditional annual gathering of tribesmen outside certain cities, building tent camp for themselves and visitors and displaying their agility on horses and control of their weapons; both swords and rifles

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=el+jadidah...-205877528.jpg

and not a male restricted party, also female warriors present:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=female+war...co-Magzter.jpg

due to its history, the country is most interesting with regards to the weapons used and present and to see. although by now in the past decades many if not most have been bought by collectors. Though some remain in the possesion of some tribes

enclosed some pictures from my collection:

https://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showp...&postcount=312
https://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showp...&postcount=316
https://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showp...&postcount=317
https://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showp...&postcount=318
https://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showp...&postcount=319

they were and still are fierce warriors, which is as well for also for the Algerians, but in the same time most kind and hospitable if treated with respect.
Concerning your quest for weapons, I think both foreign legions and the museum in Fez will be happy to assist you and be a good source of info!
So good luck hunting! ☼☼☼

[gp]

last but not least, let's not forget our 2 most popular Legionairs!!!!

"Tiens, voilà du boudin, voilà du boudin, voilà du boudin"

https://suburbanmilitarism.wordpress...oreign-legion/

[Jim McDougall]

Fantastic GP!
Again, most interesting on your foray into these exotic regions, and yes I surely do recall the music, and that many entertainers did go there through the years. Im sure the "Marrakesh Express" gained new dimension with your experience, very exciting.

Yes, Mexico, and for me growing up in the early 60s in Southern California, the 'expeditions' across the border into 'T.J." (Tijuana) and onward to Ensenada were exciting (I think) with cerveza fueled exuberance. Hardly cultural experiences though, but fun from what I recall.

It is interesting on the cultural warrior traditions celebrations and parties!

And thank you for the levity!!! YES....who can forget 'Stanley and Ollie'!!!
They were hilarious, and in my studies in these topics, my sense of humor often compels me to my own 'perspectives', since we are sharing the lighter side of our discussion topic

All the best
Jim

[gp]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Fantastic GP!
Again, most interesting on your foray into these exotic regions, and yes I surely do recall the music, and that many entertainers did go there through the years. Im sure the "Marrakesh Express" gained new dimension with your experience, very exciting.

Yes, Mexico, and for me growing up in the early 60s in Southern California, the 'expeditions' across the border into 'T.J." (Tijuana) and onward to Ensenada were exciting (I think) with cerveza fueled exuberance. Hardly cultural experiences though, but fun from what I recall.

It is interesting on the cultural warrior traditions celebrations and parties!

And thank you for the levity!!! YES....who can forget 'Stanley and Ollie'!!!
They were hilarious, and in my studies in these topics, my sense of humor often compels me to my own 'perspectives', since we are sharing the lighter side of our discussion topic

All the best
Jim

thnx for the last picture, brings back memories of Moorcock and his musical enterprises

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/mtOXAIODnGc

which coindincides with Moorcock's latest book The Citadel of Forgotten Myths on Elric, Saga of the Eternal Champoin with the sword "Stormbringer" ...to stay on cold weapons topic
by the way; only cerveza, not the strong good stuff with the worm in it..?☺☺☺
on topic on the latter

https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/hom...da-powskey.htm


yes indeed , had a great time in Marrakesh, where I actually did buy 2 very old koummyas : one for my father ( an old WWII vet of the 9th US ) and myself

FYI: after the Battle of the Bulge, the "gaps" in the US ranks when resting in Maastricht, were filled by Dutch volunteers , the so-called stormtroopers "stoottroepen"(RSPB; regiment stoottroepen Prins Bernard) who assisted the US 9th Army going into Germany and later went for training to Enfield UK prior being send to Malesia and Indonesia under British command to fight the Japanese .
There equipent and uniform was US ( uniform, rifle, pistol and bayonet; his bayonet I still got )