Pattern British Sword?

mgolab · 23rd August 2025, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radboud

I agree with Robert; it's a pre-pattern British sword dating to around the 1780s. The Crown over G could be for Thomas Gill; I believe that he used a stamp like that before 1800.

If you search the Royal Armouries online catalogue, you'll find several examples of similar-looking swords described as "Light cavalry trooper sword". Although they have langets and the blades are different. You may also want to consider that the blade on your sword has been shortened.

would you say it is infantry or naval?

Jim McDougall · 24th August 2025, 04:34 PM

As the infantry in the British army ceased carrying the sword c 1784, the only option would be perhaps this could be an officers fighting sword with perhaps a heirloom blade.

I am thinking perhaps this might be a private purchase naval sword as the straight blade corresponds to the naval cutlass (with sheet guard) c. 1804, but that just as all ideas must be pure speculation.

There are many variables with swords and their ersatz versions often comprised of various components, especially in these times, so hard to say without provenance.

To illustrate this 'phenomenon', this is a British military basket hilt, munitions grade by Jeffries, London who was a cutler producing swords with these type hilts, notably for the Black Watch c. 1750s.
When the Black Watch was in America as the Revolution ended, these were turned in and went into stores.
Apparently, there were several cases in later years where M1788 light cavalry blades were mounted into these hilts (I have seen 2, possibly 3 including mine).
There is no way to assess what these were intended for, possibly fighting swords for officers in Highland regiments? Naturally, there are no official records.

These kinds of anomalies are fascinating, and often offer compelling possibilities, but still speculation.

Radboud · 28th August 2025, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgolab

would you say it is infantry or naval?

Difficult to say, lots of different services used swords. There's a similar looking sword described as used by the foot artillery in "Swords of the British Army" by Brian Robson.

The customs service also carried swords at this time as did some hospital staff or prison guards.

mgolab · 28th August 2025, 01:44 PM

Thank you. If possible can you post the image from that book? I do not have access to it.

Radboud · 30th August 2025, 10:00 AM

page 233

Hotspur · 31st August 2025, 07:07 AM

I would agree with British artillery but I thought there was a precursor to that plate. As far as short straight hangers, there were a lot of varied like a couple of mine. There is a reproduction of this type.

It may be from the 1812-1818 war with England.

Cheers
GC

Jim McDougall · 31st August 2025, 03:15 PM

I think Radboud is onto it. The close in quillon and hilt form are compellingly similar.
In my desperate research trying to identify a briquet that was listed as a foot artillery gunners sword in the early references on British military swords and in Blair ("European and American Arms", 1962), I found there was NO such pattern or issue of such a sword.

The only foot artillery swords were the Dundas or Spanish.

The blade on this example is 18th c. and would have to be 1780s-90s for it to be Thomas Gill's. By early 19th during the presumed period of these 'foot artillery' swords shown in the Robson plate are likely War of 1812 as Glen suggests . By then John Gill was the maker for the Gill's.

24th August 2025, 04:34 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,547	As the infantry in the British army ceased carrying the sword c 1784, the only option would be perhaps this could be an officers fighting sword with perhaps a heirloom blade. I am thinking perhaps this might be a private purchase naval sword as the straight blade corresponds to the naval cutlass (with sheet guard) c. 1804, but that just as all ideas must be pure speculation. There are many variables with swords and their ersatz versions often comprised of various components, especially in these times, so hard to say without provenance. To illustrate this 'phenomenon', this is a British military basket hilt, munitions grade by Jeffries, London who was a cutler producing swords with these type hilts, notably for the Black Watch c. 1750s. When the Black Watch was in America as the Revolution ended, these were turned in and went into stores. Apparently, there were several cases in later years where M1788 light cavalry blades were mounted into these hilts (I have seen 2, possibly 3 including mine). There is no way to assess what these were intended for, possibly fighting swords for officers in Highland regiments? Naturally, there are no official records. These kinds of anomalies are fascinating, and often offer compelling possibilities, but still speculation. Attached Images

30th August 2025, 10:00 AM	#5
Radboud Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: New Zealand Posts: 289	page 233 Attached Images

31st August 2025, 07:07 AM	#6
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 528	I would agree with British artillery but I thought there was a precursor to that plate. As far as short straight hangers, there were a lot of varied like a couple of mine. There is a reproduction of this type. It may be from the 1812-1818 war with England. Cheers GC Attached Images

28th August 2025, 01:44 PM	#4
mgolab Member Join Date: Jun 2023 Posts: 111	Thank you. If possible can you post the image from that book? I do not have access to it.

31st August 2025, 03:15 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,547	I think Radboud is onto it. The close in quillon and hilt form are compellingly similar. In my desperate research trying to identify a briquet that was listed as a foot artillery gunners sword in the early references on British military swords and in Blair ("European and American Arms", 1962), I found there was NO such pattern or issue of such a sword. The only foot artillery swords were the Dundas or Spanish. The blade on this example is 18th c. and would have to be 1780s-90s for it to be Thomas Gill's. By early 19th during the presumed period of these 'foot artillery' swords shown in the Robson plate are likely War of 1812 as Glen suggests . By then John Gill was the maker for the Gill's.