Algerian dagger?

[fennec]

Originally Posted by Pertinax

Thanks fennec for the info. Do you have any examples of fleece daggers before 1850?

Best regards,
Yuri

Yep mate, actually, I guess that a lot of those staight knives, are clearly from before 1830, and many things can proov that. First of all, a lot where tooken in the very few times of colonisation on algeria, but the tourists models actually made a lot of time to exist, after algeria was "pacified" (for the north..).
You can also notice that set displayed upper, is a pure "ottoman era" work, probably for someone important etc.. but not a tourist. A tourist will buy a beautifull sword, and well deocrated set, but here, is a WAR sword, with two usefull guns. Clearly the habitual set of ottman era. So the knives are obvioulsy from same period (pobably not very old, but before france, and not decorative). Even the arabic sentences are directly in relation with battle war etc, mentionning Allah etc... not the kinds of things we made later for tourists.

However, I also have this beautifull baby, that I think is even older that those ones.. I'll try to find you some other models soon

[Pertinax]

Originally Posted by fennec

Yep mate, actually, I guess that a lot of those staight knives, are clearly from before 1830, and many things can proov that. First of all, a lot where tooken in the very few times of colonisation on algeria, but the tourists models actually made a lot of time to exist, after algeria was "pacified" (for the north..).
You can also notice that set displayed upper, is a pure "ottoman era" work, probably for someone important etc.. but not a tourist. A tourist will buy a beautifull sword, and well deocrated set, but here, is a WAR sword, with two usefull guns. Clearly the habitual set of ottman era. So the knives are obvioulsy from same period (pobably not very old, but before france, and not decorative). Even the arabic sentences are directly in relation with battle war etc, mentionning Allah etc... not the kinds of things we made later for tourists.

However, I also have this beautifull baby, that I think is even older that those ones.. I'll try to find you some other models soon

Hi fennec!

I didn't ask about the Kabyle daggers for no reason.

K. Lacoste notes:

- Only a few types of bladed weapons fall into the category of daggers. Some of them are even practically unusable, the handle is not even the size of a small palm.

- As for the use of this weapon, it is undoubtedly a secondary or additional weapon. We can also ask ourselves whether they were created recently, in which case their small size would make them preferable to large ones, but this is only a hypothesis.

I completely agree with her on this issue. An example is my specimen. Total length - 395 mm, blade length - 300 mm, handle (from blade to head) - 70 mm. The blade is made of fairly decent steel, quite functional, well suited for both cutting and stabbing. But the length of the handle does not allow it to be used practically.

Kabyle daggers are not mentioned in the sources and this is very strange. Perhaps this is due to the fact that, unlike the khanjar, jambiya or kummiya, the fleece dagger/knife is not part of the national costume. But such a type of weapon must be!

Sincerely,
Yuri

[werecow]

Does that 7cm include the pommel? My palms are about 7cm across. It may just have been made for someone with small hands.

[Pertinax]

Originally Posted by werecow

Does that 7cm include the pommel? My palms are about 7cm across. It may just have been made for someone with small hands.

The length of the handle without the pommel is 7 cm, I also have a narrow palm - 9 cm and it is very uncomfortable to hold the dagger in my hand. Such small handles are on almost all Kabyle daggers. What is this - a souvenir, a product for tourists?

[werecow]

I think you're underestimating your own hand size!

It could have been made for a boy perhaps, or just someone with smaller hands like mine. Mine is 8.5cm and it leaves me with at least a cm of unneeded space (probably more like 1.5). 7cm would most likely be OK for me.

[Pertinax]

I evaluate everything adequately and it is not for nothing that I quoted K. Lacoste. She does not have an answer to the question about the size of the dagger handles.

I will also add - any knife and dagger, in addition to combat use, is used for purely domestic needs, and therefore must be convenient to use. This is not observed here, beautiful - yes, but extremely inconvenient in practical use.

That is why I would like to see a dagger before 1850.

[werecow]

I'm not sure what you're saying. I'm telling you my experience... I can assure you that a 7cm hilt is probably usable for me and easily enough for a younger version of me. Admittedly I'm relatively short for a Dutch guy but in international circles I'm about average in size. Maybe I have tiny hands, but it's never come up.