CIVIL WAR question..Ballard .44 rimfire single shot

[urbanspaceman]

I would feel that your carbine was certainly a Kentucky even without the undeniable proof.
It was my Remington RB pistol that showed up so very occasionally in Hollywood depictions that convinced me of the efficacy of a single shot (.5) that could cycle every 2.5 seconds. Have a revolver... yes, but have the RB as well. I've said this before. The temptation to unload your revolver in 5 seconds is probably overwhelming and leaves you defenseless.

You didn't ask me about the story behind my Winchester so I will tell it anyway:
The British War Office (Navy) ordered 20,000 1892 lever action .44-40 carbines in Feb. 1915 (@ $10.50¢ each, plus 9,000 in May & 3,000 in Aug. with 3 million rounds (.44-40 pistol) ammunition.
3 Canadian inspectors were sent to New Haven on behalf of W/O to proof the weapons as Britain could not afford to send inspectors over at that time.
The Navy issued the guns to the crews of Q-Ships:
seemingly merchant vessels out of Queenstown, Ireland, hence the name.
It had become apparent that U-boat torpedoes were deemed wasted on harmless merchant vessels and the U-boats would surface to destroy those ships with deck guns.
2 x 3 pound cannons were concealed on the Q-ships' decks to be used against the surfaced U-boats.
The Winchesters were used (very effectively) against the German crew.
They were retained by the Navy after the war for 'Boarding and Inspecting' commercial merchant ships, as the 12 rounds of low penetration ammo were ideal for close-quarter action. They were kept in UK service until Feb. 1921 then sold onto the civilian market.

[CutlassCollector]

Jim,
Did you get your info from Flayderman's Guide to Antique American firearms? If not, it is reasonably priced and still available. It has around three pages on Ballard rifles and carbines.

It's complicated with many barrel lengths, calibres, octagonal barrels (these not confined to sport), round barrels and part round part octagonal.
It lists the government contracts - Kentucky, New York not marked as such but US government contracts carry MM inspector marks.

I can't immediately identify your model but can read it a bit more closely if you like.

CC

[CutlassCollector]

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

It was my Remington RB pistol that showed up so very occasionally in Hollywood depictions that convinced me of the efficacy of a single shot (.5) that could cycle every 2.5 seconds. Have a revolver... yes, but have the RB as well. I've said this before. The temptation to unload your revolver in 5 seconds is probably overwhelming and leaves you defenceless.

Jim, Keith,
Thanks for posting these, all beautiful old guns.

Towards the end of the Civil War revolvers were produced by various smaller manufacturers that allowed for quick reloading of the whole cylinder, by dropping out the empty one and slotting in a new cylinder already preloaded.

This was a huge improvement on the Colt/Remingtons where the cylinder could not be removed without tools. I'll post some pictures of my Rogers and Spencer .44 later.

So that's what I'd prefer.......... plus maybe a derringer backup.

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Keith! I had no idea of the British use of Winchesters, but this is truly fascinating! These guns in themselves have amazing histories as they were so widely used and over such long periods. Yours is a classic! Its funny, we have spent so many years discussing swords, yet our interest in arms history of course carries into guns.

This is my 1873 Saddle Ring carbine, found some years back in Albuquerque, it had been in use from 1880s there and only 'retired' in the 80s. Here in Texas the Texas Rangers have carried them faithfully up until recent years, some probably still do, when mounted.

Joaquin Jackson, one of the legendary Rangers around here seen some years ago with his. He wrote the book, "One Ranger", the title referring to the old story about years ago a riot broke out in a town and calls were sent for help. One Ranger rode calmly into town....the towns people looked and exclaimed, 'they only sent ONE ranger!!??
He calmly drawled, 'there's only one riot aint there?"
Jackson was the model for the movie "Hell or High Water" Jeff Bridges character.

With the rolling blocks, this is the one I ended up with.....the guy in New York laughed and said, well this came outa Texas in the first place, so guess its going home!



As for the Ballard, thanks for the thought on 'Kentucky'. I pretty much had that feeling too. If they wanted 'em, they'd get 'em, and hell with proper channels.
Both guns rough for wear.....but thats history!

[Jim McDougall]

CC, thanks so much for the tip! Im not sure if Ive got Flayderman, but should have it. Its quoted so much its a must have. I got most my information from an article in an American Society of Arms Collectors bulletin which was pretty thorough. For me though, Flaydermans research has always been final word, nobody ever knew stuff like him! Sure miss him.

Thanks for the insight on octagon barrels, I was thinking that such a feature would not be restricted so arbitrarily. In times of war as when these were made, I would think 'mix and match' would be common.

[CutlassCollector]

Rogers and Spencer .44 Percussion Revolver.

The US government ordered 5000 of them near the end of the war but only 1500 were delivered before the end of the conflict - I guess that still counts as a Civil War gun.

Unclip the bar from under the muzzle and the rammer can be used to load each chamber on the gun. Pull the assembly further out and the cylinder can be dropped out as the upper bar forms the axle about which it rotates. A spare fully loaded cylinder can than be dropped in for a fast reload.
Of course it was the end of the percussion era so these innovations did not last long before cartridge revolvers took over.

[Jim McDougall]

Totally amazing piece CC! I never even heard of these. It seems there were quite a few individual designs vying for contracts, and as seen here and with the Ballard and others, many contracts were far from completed.
I think that is what is exciting about firearms of this period during and after the war.

Bannerman was a mysterious and incredible entity, it seems he had his hands in all manner of surplus, stockpiling literally tons of weapons after the war and it seems in many other areas even foreign. I think he was impetus for the basic pursuits of arms collecting in the early part of the century.
Would have loved to see his island and castle in the middle of the Hudson River back in the day!

[urbanspaceman]

I am certain the final showdown in the movie "The Outlaw Josie Wales" features a replaceable cylinder winning the day... yes?
It was a definite boon with percussion arms and it would have been equally useful on cartridge revolvers surely?
Today, of course, swing out cylinders allow the use of speed loaders.