Question regarding ore used

Jim McDougall · Yesterday, 03:44 AM

C. 1629, Sir John Heyden, on diplomatic mission to Holland (probably Rotterdam) on behalf of Charles I, encountered some German swordsmiths who were said to have been escaping the terrors of the Thirty Years war. Heyden knowing the affinity for German blades convinced some of them to immigrate to England to work under royal patronage.
These were the beginnings of the Hounslow enterprise.

These refugees from Solingen included not only swordsmiths but forgers, grinders, polishers and hardeners. As refugees it is not likely there were records of their absence, and if I understand many of these workers were not included in the guild groups overall, it was primarily the smiths.

From Solingen, which is in the Ruhr valley on the Wupper river ..this is a tributary of the larger Rhine which runs through Germany and the Netherlands to Rotterdam, Hollands largest seaport.

From here the Solingen blades were exported to various trade ports including England. These were referred to colloquially as Dutch blades, not because of the phonetic similarity to Duetsch (=German) but because they came out of Rotterdam.

It seems likely there were groups of expatriate Solingen smiths and workers who must have set up shop in Holland. In earlier discussions there was if I recall, several centers where the Dutch East India (VOC) swords of the 18th c were produced or at least assembled. These seem to have had consistant patterns of marking, the VOC symbol or balemark, with the letter of the chamber (there were 6) of the VOC the blades were sent to. There appear to have been year dates added as well, through the 18th c. but most ending c. 1780s.

Not sure how all this applies to Shotley, but we do know the blades being smuggled in by Mohll were from the port of Rotterdam.

Hotspur · Yesterday, 06:37 AM

Yes, London port records are rife with manifests containing barrels of blades. Later as well, as noted by Mowbray and British ships going to Philadelphia with trunks and barrels listed as containing canes and umbrellas.

urbanspaceman · Yesterday, 08:17 AM

Umbrellas ! ? The British Brolly. What happened to the war of independence? Hey hey! You Guys thought you had won it; until it started to rain.

Yesterday, 08:17 AM	#3
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 658	weather Umbrellas ! ? The British Brolly. What happened to the war of independence? Hey hey! You Guys thought you had won it; until it started to rain.

Yesterday, 03:44 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,368	C. 1629, Sir John Heyden, on diplomatic mission to Holland (probably Rotterdam) on behalf of Charles I, encountered some German swordsmiths who were said to have been escaping the terrors of the Thirty Years war. Heyden knowing the affinity for German blades convinced some of them to immigrate to England to work under royal patronage. These were the beginnings of the Hounslow enterprise. These refugees from Solingen included not only swordsmiths but forgers, grinders, polishers and hardeners. As refugees it is not likely there were records of their absence, and if I understand many of these workers were not included in the guild groups overall, it was primarily the smiths. From Solingen, which is in the Ruhr valley on the Wupper river ..this is a tributary of the larger Rhine which runs through Germany and the Netherlands to Rotterdam, Hollands largest seaport. From here the Solingen blades were exported to various trade ports including England. These were referred to colloquially as Dutch blades, not because of the phonetic similarity to Duetsch (=German) but because they came out of Rotterdam. It seems likely there were groups of expatriate Solingen smiths and workers who must have set up shop in Holland. In earlier discussions there was if I recall, several centers where the Dutch East India (VOC) swords of the 18th c were produced or at least assembled. These seem to have had consistant patterns of marking, the VOC symbol or balemark, with the letter of the chamber (there were 6) of the VOC the blades were sent to. There appear to have been year dates added as well, through the 18th c. but most ending c. 1780s. Not sure how all this applies to Shotley, but we do know the blades being smuggled in by Mohll were from the port of Rotterdam.

Yesterday, 06:37 AM	#2
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 519	Yes, London port records are rife with manifests containing barrels of blades. Later as well, as noted by Mowbray and British ships going to Philadelphia with trunks and barrels listed as containing canes and umbrellas.