Wahabite dagger ? or janbiyya?

Jim McDougall · Yesterday, 07:21 PM

While I have some familiarity with Arabian janbiyya and khanjhar (the regional distinctions for these terms are still vague to me), this larger version acquired years ago remains a puzzle.
I have seen references referring to these as 'sabaki' (?) and described as Wahabite daggers.

All I can surmise from the Wahabite term is referring to a revisionist and more orthodox school of Sunni Islam which originated in Arabia in the 18th c.
In the complexities of unrest in Arabia at around the turn of the century, there were factions of Wahabite followers known as IKHWAN, and fought in the many conflicts over the decades in Saudi Arabia.

The Paris based French orientalist artist Ludwig Duetsch (1855-1935) had visited Egypt numerous times from 1885 thru 1898, but as far as I found never visited Arabia. In his 1900 painting "The Nubian Guard", the figure is seen wearing several weapons in his sash, with one of these daggers included. Clearly artistic license is at hand, and it appears he drew from various antiquities circulating in France at the time, however as we know, the weapons of many countries and spheres often pooled in colonial situations.

The photo of the tribesman is an Ikhwan warrior c.1900, and one of these seen.

Can anyone clarify more on the proper term and regional or tribal associations of this dagger? Was it indeed a form preferred by Wahabites?

In studying the remarkable Hajj of Sir Richard Burton, where as disguised as a Sufi cleric he was able to penetrate both Mecca and Medina, there is an illustration (I have not yet relocated) with him wearing one of these.

gp · Today, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... there is an illustration (I have not yet relocated) with him wearing one of these.

there are plural editions of the book describing this voyage and all have different pictures in them; some fotos and some drawings...
as for the description "Wahabite daggers" , I think that as nonsensical as their doesn't exists in a similar way catholic, orthodox, protestant, sunni or sjia weapons.
Whahabites was / is a movement named not by the Arabs but Western world after its founder (Muḥammad ibn ʿAbd al-Wahhāb ibn Sulaymān al-Tamīm) who came from the Najd and was member of the Banu Tamim tribe
But that doesn't answer which kind of dagger Sir Richard had...sorry that I am not able to assist any further....it al depends which tribal identity Sir Richard took/ copied...

Jim McDougall · Today, 03:30 AM

Great analogy GP!!! the Wahabite term for a dagger form does seem fanciful at best, rather as well illustrated by the 'orientalist' notions of the colonial periods labeling and categorizing everything by popular and romanticized images.

Still wonder what term these might actually be known by.

Burton was brilliant in languages and mannerisms, and contrived an identity as Sufi, as this would not be defined specifically, and claimed a diverse background to explain any imperfections in his character.

Jim McDougall · Today, 03:42 AM

Great analogy GP!!! the Wahabite term for a dagger form does seem fanciful at best, rather as well illustrated by the 'orientalist' notions of the colonial periods labeling and categorizing everything by popular and romanticized images.

Still wonder what term these might actually be known by.

Burton was brilliant in languages and mannerisms, and contrived an identity as Sufi, as this would not be defined specifically, and claimed a diverse background to explain any imperfections in his character.

Marc M. · Today, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Great analogy GP!!! the Wahabite term for a dagger form does seem fanciful at best, rather as well illustrated by the 'orientalist' notions of the colonial periods labeling and categorizing everything by popular and romanticized images.

Still wonder what term these might actually be known by.

Burton was brilliant in languages and mannerisms, and contrived an identity as Sufi, as this would not be defined specifically, and claimed a diverse background to explain any imperfections in his character.

I thought this type of weapon is called dharia.

Regards Marc

Yesterday, 07:21 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,336	Wahabite dagger ? or janbiyya? While I have some familiarity with Arabian janbiyya and khanjhar (the regional distinctions for these terms are still vague to me), this larger version acquired years ago remains a puzzle. I have seen references referring to these as 'sabaki' (?) and described as Wahabite daggers. All I can surmise from the Wahabite term is referring to a revisionist and more orthodox school of Sunni Islam which originated in Arabia in the 18th c. In the complexities of unrest in Arabia at around the turn of the century, there were factions of Wahabite followers known as IKHWAN, and fought in the many conflicts over the decades in Saudi Arabia. The Paris based French orientalist artist Ludwig Duetsch (1855-1935) had visited Egypt numerous times from 1885 thru 1898, but as far as I found never visited Arabia. In his 1900 painting "The Nubian Guard", the figure is seen wearing several weapons in his sash, with one of these daggers included. Clearly artistic license is at hand, and it appears he drew from various antiquities circulating in France at the time, however as we know, the weapons of many countries and spheres often pooled in colonial situations. The photo of the tribesman is an Ikhwan warrior c.1900, and one of these seen. Can anyone clarify more on the proper term and regional or tribal associations of this dagger? Was it indeed a form preferred by Wahabites? In studying the remarkable Hajj of Sir Richard Burton, where as disguised as a Sufi cleric he was able to penetrate both Mecca and Medina, there is an illustration (I have not yet relocated) with him wearing one of these. Attached Images

Today, 03:30 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,336	Great analogy GP!!! the Wahabite term for a dagger form does seem fanciful at best, rather as well illustrated by the 'orientalist' notions of the colonial periods labeling and categorizing everything by popular and romanticized images. Still wonder what term these might actually be known by. Burton was brilliant in languages and mannerisms, and contrived an identity as Sufi, as this would not be defined specifically, and claimed a diverse background to explain any imperfections in his character.

Today, 03:42 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,336	Great analogy GP!!! the Wahabite term for a dagger form does seem fanciful at best, rather as well illustrated by the 'orientalist' notions of the colonial periods labeling and categorizing everything by popular and romanticized images. Still wonder what term these might actually be known by. Burton was brilliant in languages and mannerisms, and contrived an identity as Sufi, as this would not be defined specifically, and claimed a diverse background to explain any imperfections in his character.