Takouba/alguinar West Africa -marking conundrum

Marc M. · 22nd June 2025, 06:18 PM

Hi Jim
I am afraid I cannot help you with the mark on your takouba.
Much of this symbolism is lost in terms of meaning. In the catalogue on the tuareg exhibition only a very small section is devoted to the takouba and on the specimens shown only the classic half moon mark is mentioned.
Regards
Marc

Jim McDougall · 22nd June 2025, 08:00 PM

Thank you anyway Marc for answering! I know a lot of the stuff I enter is pretty esoteric, but I figure that no harm in asking, clearly a lot of readers...over 2000 in weeks. Still theres always a chance somebody out there might have seen something similar.
Your scope of knowledge is remarkable as shown in your posts, so your response keenly represents the esoterica toward my entry.
Best regards
Jim

Jim McDougall · 22nd June 2025, 08:21 PM

Yuri thank you so much! and especially for these resources and the assembly of terms which many of which I am unfamiliar with , as well as these references. I know Bivar of course, but not the others.
Most of my study has been focused on "European Blades in Tuareg Swords and Daggers", Dr. Lloyd Cabot Briggs, JAAS, 1965.

As you note, as with most ethnographic swords, the blades used in them were inclined to follow local favor in types, but often availability became more the result in variations. Local hilts followed more closely in form, but even with these sometimes regional variation would occur, as Lee Jones illustrates in his paper held in the archives here.

The blade types are well discussed by Ed Hunley, also in his extremely thorough papers also held in the archives here.

It seems that the takouba collectively used the broadsword blade, and characteristically had a rebated/rounded tip. This was I believe for the slashing cut as Tuareg (and associated tribes) favored that over the thrust.

As I have understood the Hausa tribes were typically blacksmiths, and produced many blades which were distributed throughout the trade routes. According to Rodd (1928) these had either three or five channels (fullers) and often the familiar dual moons (called dukari) were ubiquitous near the fullers.
These were believed to imbue magic into the blades in the beliefs of the local folk religions.

While the familiar broadsword blades prevailed, it is the anomalies that occur in the constant refurbishing of these swords through generations that present fascinating possibiities. One I recall with Iain Norman was I believe a 14th c. European blade with potential Crusades association. These kinds of curious finds were what prompted Dr. Briggs to write his venerable work.

Thank you so much for answering, and especially for these resources and terms! which I was not aware of!

Best regards
Jim

Pertinax · 22nd June 2025, 09:23 PM

Jim, I didn't know you didn't have this book, please:

http://ndl.ethernet.edu.et/bitstream...1/1/92.pdf.pdf

Enjoy reading.

Best regards,
Yuri

Jim McDougall · 23rd June 2025, 01:58 AM

Thank you again Yuri!!! This is amazing resource. Ive been pretty out of touch with research in these areas, and there is outstanding information in this!

All best regards
jim

TVV · 24th June 2025, 03:23 PM

This may simply be a unique interpretation of the half-moon markings. But you may also want to read this essay by our own Iain:

https://iainnorman.com/the-sword-and-the-slave

Pertinax · 24th June 2025, 05:07 PM

Iain has done an amazing job researching takuba. I sincerely thank him for the draft of the book.
It is a pity that he has suspended work on publishing the book for now.

22nd June 2025, 06:18 PM	#1
Marc M. Member Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Belgium Posts: 294	Hi Jim I am afraid I cannot help you with the mark on your takouba. Much of this symbolism is lost in terms of meaning. In the catalogue on the tuareg exhibition only a very small section is devoted to the takouba and on the specimens shown only the classic half moon mark is mentioned. Regards Marc

22nd June 2025, 08:00 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,519	Thank you anyway Marc for answering! I know a lot of the stuff I enter is pretty esoteric, but I figure that no harm in asking, clearly a lot of readers...over 2000 in weeks. Still theres always a chance somebody out there might have seen something similar. Your scope of knowledge is remarkable as shown in your posts, so your response keenly represents the esoterica toward my entry. Best regards Jim

22nd June 2025, 08:21 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,519	Yuri thank you so much! and especially for these resources and the assembly of terms which many of which I am unfamiliar with , as well as these references. I know Bivar of course, but not the others. Most of my study has been focused on "European Blades in Tuareg Swords and Daggers", Dr. Lloyd Cabot Briggs, JAAS, 1965. As you note, as with most ethnographic swords, the blades used in them were inclined to follow local favor in types, but often availability became more the result in variations. Local hilts followed more closely in form, but even with these sometimes regional variation would occur, as Lee Jones illustrates in his paper held in the archives here. The blade types are well discussed by Ed Hunley, also in his extremely thorough papers also held in the archives here. It seems that the takouba collectively used the broadsword blade, and characteristically had a rebated/rounded tip. This was I believe for the slashing cut as Tuareg (and associated tribes) favored that over the thrust. As I have understood the Hausa tribes were typically blacksmiths, and produced many blades which were distributed throughout the trade routes. According to Rodd (1928) these had either three or five channels (fullers) and often the familiar dual moons (called dukari) were ubiquitous near the fullers. These were believed to imbue magic into the blades in the beliefs of the local folk religions. While the familiar broadsword blades prevailed, it is the anomalies that occur in the constant refurbishing of these swords through generations that present fascinating possibiities. One I recall with Iain Norman was I believe a 14th c. European blade with potential Crusades association. These kinds of curious finds were what prompted Dr. Briggs to write his venerable work. Thank you so much for answering, and especially for these resources and terms! which I was not aware of! Best regards Jim

22nd June 2025, 09:23 PM	#4
Pertinax Member Join Date: Dec 2023 Location: City by the Black Sea Posts: 270	Jim, I didn't know you didn't have this book, please: http://ndl.ethernet.edu.et/bitstream...1/1/92.pdf.pdf Enjoy reading. Best regards, Yuri

23rd June 2025, 01:58 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,519	Thank you again Yuri!!! This is amazing resource. Ive been pretty out of touch with research in these areas, and there is outstanding information in this! All best regards jim

24th June 2025, 03:23 PM	#6
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,705	This may simply be a unique interpretation of the half-moon markings. But you may also want to read this essay by our own Iain: https://iainnorman.com/the-sword-and-the-slave

24th June 2025, 05:07 PM	#7
Pertinax Member Join Date: Dec 2023 Location: City by the Black Sea Posts: 270	Iain has done an amazing job researching takuba. I sincerely thank him for the draft of the book. It is a pity that he has suspended work on publishing the book for now.