Unusual daab/darv (2)

Ian · Yesterday, 01:59 PM

This one was sold recently by a German Auction House (H.H.) who labeled it as a "Myanmese dha." Again, I question that designation. Of note is a small habaki-like copper band at forte, a small disc guard and a three part hilt of ferrule/wood/ferrule. The blade is unusual too for its marked distal upwards curve and acute point.

Many years ago (on the defunct UBB forum of this site) there was a discussion of Japanese mercenaries and communities living in Thailand in the 19th C, and the observation that some Thai swords have evidence of a Japanese influence. This could be one of those.

Another possibility is a Cochin saber from Vietnam. I have an old darv with a similar habaki-like structure, but a very different hilt and blade.

There may be other Japanese-influenced possibilities. It would be interesting to hear the experience of others in this regard. I have not seen an old Burmese dha with Japanese features or with a similar blade to this one.

.

RobT · Yesterday, 11:32 PM

Ian,

Could the habaki-like structure be a tunkou variant?

Sincerely,
RobT

Iain · Today, 01:08 PM

This is a nice example of a Vietnamese guom, the bronze tonku, blade from and the typical rivet with decorative plate on the handle are all characteristic for the type. They are not common swords and its nice to see a solid and from the looks of it quite old example.

Ian · Today, 03:29 PM

Iain,

Thank you for your confident identification of this piece and its features. Do you find the manner in which the blade curves is typical for these swords? To my eye the curvature seems to start well below the hilt. The guom that I have seen and handled had blades with less prominent curvature which extended the length of the blade.

Rob,

You raise an interesting question about whether this copper feature below the guard is related to a Japanese habaki or to a Chinese tunkou. The somewhat open-mouthed appearance on this sword is perhaps suggestive of a Chinese influence. However, Japanese presence in Thailand and Vietnam dates as far back as the 15th and 16th C when Japanese mercenaries first appeared in Thailand. Later they took to piracy, and were prevalent also in Vietnam. Guards on Vietnamese sabers in the north and south sometimes resembled Japanese tsubas, even down to two holes for the utility knives found on Japanes swords (but absent on the Vietnamese ones). The Cochin dai dao from southern Vietnam also have a habaki or collar at the forte as do Japanese swords. Sometimes, oval serrated washers like Japanese seppa are also found between the guard and collar.

Scott Rodell, a noted expert on Chinese and Vietnamese swords and sometimes contributor to this Forum, has written a nice piece on Vietnamese swords and the influences from Chinese, Thai, and Japanese sources. It can be found here.

Iain · Today, 08:49 PM

A well placed question regarding the blade curvature. It is however a form I have encountered before. Both the attached pieces passed through my hands in the past and were clearly Vietnamese based on the construction, blade decoration and other elements.

Guom is a general term and there is quite some variety of types within the category.

Given the size of the piece at auction we could argue it is more of a truong dao, but regardless this blade curvature is not all that unusual.

The first image I am attaching is from a relatively short sabre I owned for a time with a pronounced 'hook' at the tip (photo is my own).

The second, a grouping of arms from the region, with the large truong dao in the middle showing a similar blade profile as the auction example (photo credit in this case goes to Mandarin Mansion although I did own this group prior).

Note the similarities in hilt components etc.

Yesterday, 01:59 PM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,374	Unusual daab/darv (2) This one was sold recently by a German Auction House (H.H.) who labeled it as a "Myanmese dha." Again, I question that designation. Of note is a small habaki-like copper band at forte, a small disc guard and a three part hilt of ferrule/wood/ferrule. The blade is unusual too for its marked distal upwards curve and acute point. Many years ago (on the defunct UBB forum of this site) there was a discussion of Japanese mercenaries and communities living in Thailand in the 19th C, and the observation that some Thai swords have evidence of a Japanese influence. This could be one of those. Another possibility is a Cochin saber from Vietnam. I have an old darv with a similar habaki-like structure, but a very different hilt and blade. There may be other Japanese-influenced possibilities. It would be interesting to hear the experience of others in this regard. I have not seen an old Burmese dha with Japanese features or with a similar blade to this one. . Attached Images

Yesterday, 11:32 PM	#2
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 540	Tunkou? Ian, Could the habaki-like structure be a tunkou variant? Sincerely, RobT

Today, 08:49 PM	#5
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,715	A well placed question regarding the blade curvature. It is however a form I have encountered before. Both the attached pieces passed through my hands in the past and were clearly Vietnamese based on the construction, blade decoration and other elements. Guom is a general term and there is quite some variety of types within the category. Given the size of the piece at auction we could argue it is more of a truong dao, but regardless this blade curvature is not all that unusual. The first image I am attaching is from a relatively short sabre I owned for a time with a pronounced 'hook' at the tip (photo is my own). The second, a grouping of arms from the region, with the large truong dao in the middle showing a similar blade profile as the auction example (photo credit in this case goes to Mandarin Mansion although I did own this group prior). Note the similarities in hilt components etc. Attached Images

Today, 01:08 PM	#3
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,715	This is a nice example of a Vietnamese guom, the bronze tonku, blade from and the typical rivet with decorative plate on the handle are all characteristic for the type. They are not common swords and its nice to see a solid and from the looks of it quite old example.

Today, 03:29 PM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,374	Iain, Thank you for your confident identification of this piece and its features. Do you find the manner in which the blade curves is typical for these swords? To my eye the curvature seems to start well below the hilt. The guom that I have seen and handled had blades with less prominent curvature which extended the length of the blade. Rob, You raise an interesting question about whether this copper feature below the guard is related to a Japanese habaki or to a Chinese tunkou. The somewhat open-mouthed appearance on this sword is perhaps suggestive of a Chinese influence. However, Japanese presence in Thailand and Vietnam dates as far back as the 15th and 16th C when Japanese mercenaries first appeared in Thailand. Later they took to piracy, and were prevalent also in Vietnam. Guards on Vietnamese sabers in the north and south sometimes resembled Japanese tsubas, even down to two holes for the utility knives found on Japanes swords (but absent on the Vietnamese ones). The Cochin dai dao from southern Vietnam also have a habaki or collar at the forte as do Japanese swords. Sometimes, oval serrated washers like Japanese seppa are also found between the guard and collar. Scott Rodell, a noted expert on Chinese and Vietnamese swords and sometimes contributor to this Forum, has written a nice piece on Vietnamese swords and the influences from Chinese, Thai, and Japanese sources. It can be found here.