Keris patrem ?

David · 18th April 2025, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIO

Many thanks for your answers. I myself have already excluded it as a keris patrem, I confirm the high level of craftmanship, the pamor as "buntel majat" (hence the absence of a core). My question is therefore: "what was it made for ??". Is it a form of talisman ?
Apart from any consideration I consider it a nice item and am happy to have purchased it.
Thank again for the cooperation and best regards. Gio

Could have been made for a number of reasons. Yes, a could have been intended as a jimat (talisman), but it could just as easily be an item created purely for collectors as many modern keris are.

Pak Daud · 29th May 2025, 10:21 AM

Gio,
I think this is 7 luk (waves) keris, but you are right, this is Kamardikan (after the independence or after) so it is considered newly minted. Pamor "Gubet".
It is definitly Balinese style, with Hilt carving as Togog? (I am not sure).
Good on dark staining as well.
In my opinion, since it is relatively small in measurement, it is NOT considered as Patrem, in which was Javanese term for the Keris obtained for female owner.
Smaller than patrem, then It may perceived as Keris "Jimatan" (Talisman) or keris "Tayuhan" (higher degree from just a talisman).
They are both have values within isoterical beliefs (such as represent of certain dieties etc).

IMHO, it was usually meant for "housing", an empty vessel, a place for dieties to be sat in. For example, in Balinese Hindu, a trader, a farmer, animal husbandries etc must corelate upon certain dieties that reflect to his job intended.

Anyway, it is good collection, fair build and clearly it's a charm.
Congrats Gio.

A. G. Maisey · 30th May 2025, 03:58 AM

Possibly even a charm to charm duit from the pockets of travellers into a sellers pockets.

But seriously, yes, sure it could be regarded as a charm with talismanic properties, provided it has been made as such.

I only know one person in Jawa & Bali who can make a keris using the correct mantras. Only one. And he will only make such a keris for a temple, not for an individual.

Pak Daud · 30th May 2025, 05:03 PM

True that, to charm duit.

GIO · 30th May 2025, 06:55 PM

Many thanks for your comments, Pak Daud and Alan. I do not consider this item a talisman, I only consider this small "keris" a nice and uncommon manufacture which will not disfigure into my modest keris collection.

29th May 2025, 10:21 AM	#2
Pak Daud Member Join Date: May 2024 Posts: 6	Gio, I think this is 7 luk (waves) keris, but you are right, this is Kamardikan (after the independence or after) so it is considered newly minted. Pamor "Gubet". It is definitly Balinese style, with Hilt carving as Togog? (I am not sure). Good on dark staining as well. In my opinion, since it is relatively small in measurement, it is NOT considered as Patrem, in which was Javanese term for the Keris obtained for female owner. Smaller than patrem, then It may perceived as Keris "Jimatan" (Talisman) or keris "Tayuhan" (higher degree from just a talisman). They are both have values within isoterical beliefs (such as represent of certain dieties etc). IMHO, it was usually meant for "housing", an empty vessel, a place for dieties to be sat in. For example, in Balinese Hindu, a trader, a farmer, animal husbandries etc must corelate upon certain dieties that reflect to his job intended. Anyway, it is good collection, fair build and clearly it's a charm. Congrats Gio.

30th May 2025, 03:58 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Possibly even a charm to charm duit from the pockets of travellers into a sellers pockets. But seriously, yes, sure it could be regarded as a charm with talismanic properties, provided it has been made as such. I only know one person in Jawa & Bali who can make a keris using the correct mantras. Only one. And he will only make such a keris for a temple, not for an individual.

30th May 2025, 05:03 PM	#4
Pak Daud Member Join Date: May 2024 Posts: 6	True that, to charm duit.

30th May 2025, 06:55 PM	#5
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 329	Many thanks for your comments, Pak Daud and Alan. I do not consider this item a talisman, I only consider this small "keris" a nice and uncommon manufacture which will not disfigure into my modest keris collection.