Moro punal bronze guard?

[Ian]

Just a little more on the dating of these gunong. I have taken the liberty of annotating one of Detlef's pictures.

The circled areas highlight the back edge just before the first "true" luk. The lower example shows a straight edge with a sharp point immediately before the first curve. This is less obvious in the upper example. This sharp point of the lower example is also seen in the same place on Mindanao kris from the end of the 19th C and into the 20th C. It is typically found on the heavier bladed versions of Maranao and Maguindanao kris from that period. The upper example is of a style that predates this feature. That does not mean that the upper example is older, just that it is an older form.

Jeff's example at the top of this post also shows a sharp point at this area of the blade.

My (conservative) feeling is that all of these examples, mine included, likely date from no earlier than the 1890s, and most likely are from the first part of the 20th C. This is based on an analogy to Moro kris showing similar features and the assumption that the ferrule/guard style was confined to relatively few (perhaps ony one) source. The construction of the combined ferrule/guard is unusual and requires materials and some expertise for brazing/silver soldering that may have been very limited in the Moro world of swords and knives. Some of the brazing looks fairly crude.

[Battara]

Just looking at the hilt styles by themselves, I would agree with your dating Ian.

[Interested Party]

Here is another discussion of this type of gunong.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28826

[JeffS]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

Here is another discussion of this type of gunong.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28826

Cool. Do we merge threads here? Appending this one to that would be efficient use of space.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by JeffS

Cool. Do we merge threads here? Appending this one to that would be efficient use of space.

I think that would be quite helpful.
Ian, can you please facilitate this suggestion?

[Ian]

The two threads have now been merged. The merged name is that of the most recent thread.

[Ian]

Just one last thought on the similarity between gunong and kris blade styles. Here is a relatively modern kris blade that shows the square shoulder preceding the first luk on the "back edge" of the blade, and the ">"-shaped point with its acutely angled tip. The blade does not have a separate gangya, and the tang is very short (although Moro kris can have surprisingly short tangs, this one is shorter than most). The elephant trunk area suggests a Maguindanao origin for this blade.

The okir style engraved on the blade, with cross-hatching, is found on early 20th C pieces (say, 1900–1920/1930), and this is consistent with the blade features noted above. Similar blades were made later without the engraved okir.

I think this may help date some of the gunong shown here. However, the production of these small knives has extended for more than a century, and continue today. Those seen for sale now are nearly all 20th C in origin, sometimes reflecting earlier styles. I don't think one can say that because the blade on a gunong resembles a kris style of the late 19th C or early 20th C it is therefore from that same period. I think one can say it is of a style that does not predate the corresponding kris style, however it could have been produced decades later. Only a small fraction of Moro gunong/punal coming on to the market these days are 19th C in origin and it is good to see pictures of knives in an early style posted in this thread. The popularity of the gunong as a souvenir item will see its continued production in the Philippines, although current quality may not be what it once was.

[JeffS]

Here is one more from my collection that features that squared shoulder.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Ian

Just a little more on the dating of these gunong. I have taken the liberty of annotating one of Detlef's pictures.

Attachment 244007

The circled areas highlight the back edge just before the first "true" luk. The lower example shows a straight edge with a sharp point immediately before the first curve. This is less obvious in the upper example. This sharp point of the lower example is also seen in the same place on Mindanao kris from the end of the 19th C and into the 20th C. It is typically found on the heavier bladed versions of Maranao and Maguindanao kris from that period. The upper example is of a style that predates this feature. That does not mean that the upper example is older, just that it is an older form.

Jeff's example at the top of this post also shows a sharp point at this area of the blade.

My (conservative) feeling is that all of these examples, mine included, likely date from no earlier than the 1890s, and most likely are from the first part of the 20th C. This is based on an analogy to Moro kris showing similar features and the assumption that the ferrule/guard style was confined to relatively few (perhaps ony one) source. The construction of the combined ferrule/guard is unusual and requires materials and some expertise for brazing/silver soldering that may have been very limited in the Moro world of swords and knives. Some of the brazing looks fairly crude.

Hi Ian,

This feature of the sharp point is also found by later examples, see the attached pic. of another gunong from my collection.

Regards,
Detlef

[Ian]

Thanks Detlef. Yes, that sharply defined area is seen on later examples, well into the 20th C.

[Rafngard]

I have at least one similar, with the brass/bronze ferrule/guard and a nicely forged blade.

I'll see if I can't takes some pics soonish, but in the mean time, here's one cropped from a family photo.

Have fun,
Leif

[Rafngard]

Originally Posted by Rafngard

I'll see if I can't takes some pics soonish, but in the mean time, here's one cropped from a family photo.
f

Apparently today is "soonish"