New shamshir: hoping for a diamond in the rough.

GePi · 10th June 2024, 05:06 PM

Hi,
I agree that is a nice example of a late 19th century Afghan shamshir, and the blade earlier than the hilt.

I am quite certain the blade is wootz. These parallel lines along the cutting edge are a feature that is commonly seen on shamshir blades with nice watered wootz patterns, I have attached a close up of the pattern of my own Afghan shamshir that I managed to grab earlier this year.

As for the cartouche I don't think that it is a Persian trade blade, rather locally made.
These a bit crude looking single cartouches I have seen before on Afghan blades, I have added two mounted in pulwar hilts that seem to made with the same stamp.
Those two have written amal-e assadullah esfahani whereas your's has the bandeye shah-e velayat, the second part of the generic Persian double cartouche, but otherwise they look quite similar to me.

I feel the date seems a bit early, but on the other hand I don't think it would make much sense to fake a date that is after all still not that early, so it might be genuine.

Ian · 10th June 2024, 05:56 PM

Thank you GePi. As noted already, I'm no expert on wootz! I have seen similar linear markings along the edge of some laminated Filipino blades, which prompted my question about whether this was in fact wootz. You have provided clear evidence it is. That's a lovely blade that you have shown.

Nice pick-up 10th Royal!

Norman McCormick · 10th June 2024, 06:43 PM

Hi,
The hilt configuration would suggest it has undergone a local interpretation of a Western style sword hilt and guard much as has happened to this Khyber knife of mine. You'll notice the scabbard even has a drag although this is entirely pointless as the scabbard is far too short to be anywhere near ground level. This adaptation to the chape is just a rote copy of British sword scabbards of the period. As far as I could determine searching the net this was done at the end of the 19thC when Britain had influence in the region and locals were styling their military along Western lines. Nice sword and I will look forward to seeing the blade when cleaned up a little.
Regards,
Norman.

Battara · 11th June 2024, 07:07 PM

Another look changes my mind into the blade being a tight pattern damascus, which as Ian has said, has been found on some Moro pieces.

Battara · 11th June 2024, 07:14 PM

Here are pictures of my stolen gunong from years ago, with a close up of a wootz looking blade structure similar to your blade.

10th June 2024, 05:06 PM	#1
GePi Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Germany Posts: 95	Hi, I agree that is a nice example of a late 19th century Afghan shamshir, and the blade earlier than the hilt. I am quite certain the blade is wootz. These parallel lines along the cutting edge are a feature that is commonly seen on shamshir blades with nice watered wootz patterns, I have attached a close up of the pattern of my own Afghan shamshir that I managed to grab earlier this year. As for the cartouche I don't think that it is a Persian trade blade, rather locally made. These a bit crude looking single cartouches I have seen before on Afghan blades, I have added two mounted in pulwar hilts that seem to made with the same stamp. Those two have written amal-e assadullah esfahani whereas your's has the bandeye shah-e velayat, the second part of the generic Persian double cartouche, but otherwise they look quite similar to me. I feel the date seems a bit early, but on the other hand I don't think it would make much sense to fake a date that is after all still not that early, so it might be genuine. Attached Images

10th June 2024, 06:43 PM	#3
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,613	Hi, The hilt configuration would suggest it has undergone a local interpretation of a Western style sword hilt and guard much as has happened to this Khyber knife of mine. You'll notice the scabbard even has a drag although this is entirely pointless as the scabbard is far too short to be anywhere near ground level. This adaptation to the chape is just a rote copy of British sword scabbards of the period. As far as I could determine searching the net this was done at the end of the 19thC when Britain had influence in the region and locals were styling their military along Western lines. Nice sword and I will look forward to seeing the blade when cleaned up a little. Regards, Norman. Attached Images

11th June 2024, 07:14 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Here are pictures of my stolen gunong from years ago, with a close up of a wootz looking blade structure similar to your blade. Attached Images

10th June 2024, 05:56 PM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,362	Thank you GePi. As noted already, I'm no expert on wootz! I have seen similar linear markings along the edge of some laminated Filipino blades, which prompted my question about whether this was in fact wootz. You have provided clear evidence it is. That's a lovely blade that you have shown. Nice pick-up 10th Royal!

11th June 2024, 07:07 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Another look changes my mind into the blade being a tight pattern damascus, which as Ian has said, has been found on some Moro pieces.