Bali Keris Info & Advice Requested

A. G. Maisey · 31st March 2024, 09:53 PM

Rob, my concern with a heat gun is mostly because of the possibility of damage to a hilt or uwer, this keris does not have a hilt that needs to be preserved if it is removed. There is no possibility of affecting any heat treatment that the blade may have been subjected to, because the lower part of the blade will not have been hardened.

Removal of the hilt would only be necessary if the blade was to be stained, staining of the blade would only be necessary if the keris were to be redressed in Balinese dress.

If I use a two part epoxy adhesive I use Araldite, usually 5 minute, this has a service temperature to 100C, it will lose adhesion at 100C, there is a high temperature type that has service temp. to 400C, I believe it would be unusual to encounter this, but even so, 400C would still be OK to release with heat.

Equally, the paint has no place at all on the blade, sure, in can be hypothesized that a previous owner thought he was doing something in tune with Balinese mores, but he was wrong. If the decision is to restore, the paint must go.

If you're comfortable in using a heat gun, then use it. I have demounted more hilts than I can remember, certainly well into the hundreds, maybe more, keris & other blades. I've used candles, kerosene lamps, propane torches, & yes, heat guns, but it all comes down to one thing:- get heat up into the tang so that the adhesive lets go, there no great degree of skill required, but a strong wrist & a bench vice can help.

I see the whole matter very simply, as in an earlier post:-

If a curio collector, then leave as is, if a keris collector, redress as Bali.

David · 1st April 2024, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I see the whole matter very simply, as in an earlier post:-
If a curio collector, then leave as is, if a keris collector, redress as Bali.

I do have to say that Alan that it's not necessarily such a simple matter. Rob lives on the east coast of the USA and you can't just run out and hire a mranggi to make you a new sheath. Finding old sheaths that are the general right size that can be adapted for your keris is no simple task either. Send blades back to Indonesia can be a risky affair in both directions. And even if you are a good woodworker, or know a good woodworker, have a sarung made in the States for this is not likely to produce a product that would suit as an authentic Balinese sarung.
Finding a suitable hilt and uwer for the blade is, of course, a much easier proposition.
I currently have two unsheathed Bali keris that i would love to fully dress one day. It is not an easy task outside of the culture.

A. G. Maisey · 2nd April 2024, 12:03 AM

I agree David.

But really, it is perspective:- if you cannot get the blade dressed easily, it is a simple decision to let it stay as is.

milandro · 2nd April 2024, 07:59 AM

I have had one bad experience sending through a friend 2 blades to an address in Bali the blades got lost, but actually it was largely my friend's fault.

On the contrary I have had several successes in sending the measures (it is not easy but can be done) of the blade to a carver in Bali and they have made the dress for me , it needed minor alteration to fit and I am very happy with it.

It surely can be done , but one has to want to do it.

RobT · 6th April 2024, 10:10 PM

Hi All,

I got the hilt loose. The round tang hole was tapered to fit a keris tang, so the hilt appears to have been deliberately made for a keris. The hole is a hair less than 3” (7.62cm) deep . The kris tang measures 2-11/16” (6.82625cm) long and is 23/64” (9.118mm) in diameter at the base. When I took the hilt off, I found some écru colored thread wrapped around the end of the tang, so whoever mounted the hilt had some knowledge of how kris hilts are affixed. The oval shaped, brass selut is plain save for a rim at the top. There is also a brass ring below the selut that may have been soldered to it at one time but is now separate. The brass ring had the same orange pigment found in the blade fuller and some of that pigment was on the top of the ganja right around the ring. Why anyone, with enough knowledge to fit a keris hilt properly, would make such a bizarre hilt assemblage is anyone’s guess. The same question can be asked about the ultra deep wranka on the sheath.

Sincerely,
RobT

6th April 2024, 10:10 PM	#5
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 535	The Hilt is Loose Hi All, I got the hilt loose. The round tang hole was tapered to fit a keris tang, so the hilt appears to have been deliberately made for a keris. The hole is a hair less than 3” (7.62cm) deep . The kris tang measures 2-11/16” (6.82625cm) long and is 23/64” (9.118mm) in diameter at the base. When I took the hilt off, I found some écru colored thread wrapped around the end of the tang, so whoever mounted the hilt had some knowledge of how kris hilts are affixed. The oval shaped, brass selut is plain save for a rim at the top. There is also a brass ring below the selut that may have been soldered to it at one time but is now separate. The brass ring had the same orange pigment found in the blade fuller and some of that pigment was on the top of the ganja right around the ring. Why anyone, with enough knowledge to fit a keris hilt properly, would make such a bizarre hilt assemblage is anyone’s guess. The same question can be asked about the ultra deep wranka on the sheath. Sincerely, RobT

31st March 2024, 09:53 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Rob, my concern with a heat gun is mostly because of the possibility of damage to a hilt or uwer, this keris does not have a hilt that needs to be preserved if it is removed. There is no possibility of affecting any heat treatment that the blade may have been subjected to, because the lower part of the blade will not have been hardened. Removal of the hilt would only be necessary if the blade was to be stained, staining of the blade would only be necessary if the keris were to be redressed in Balinese dress. If I use a two part epoxy adhesive I use Araldite, usually 5 minute, this has a service temperature to 100C, it will lose adhesion at 100C, there is a high temperature type that has service temp. to 400C, I believe it would be unusual to encounter this, but even so, 400C would still be OK to release with heat. Equally, the paint has no place at all on the blade, sure, in can be hypothesized that a previous owner thought he was doing something in tune with Balinese mores, but he was wrong. If the decision is to restore, the paint must go. If you're comfortable in using a heat gun, then use it. I have demounted more hilts than I can remember, certainly well into the hundreds, maybe more, keris & other blades. I've used candles, kerosene lamps, propane torches, & yes, heat guns, but it all comes down to one thing:- get heat up into the tang so that the adhesive lets go, there no great degree of skill required, but a strong wrist & a bench vice can help. I see the whole matter very simply, as in an earlier post:- If a curio collector, then leave as is, if a keris collector, redress as Bali.

2nd April 2024, 12:03 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	I agree David. But really, it is perspective:- if you cannot get the blade dressed easily, it is a simple decision to let it stay as is.

2nd April 2024, 07:59 AM	#4
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 487	I have had one bad experience sending through a friend 2 blades to an address in Bali the blades got lost, but actually it was largely my friend's fault. On the contrary I have had several successes in sending the measures (it is not easy but can be done) of the blade to a carver in Bali and they have made the dress for me , it needed minor alteration to fit and I am very happy with it. It surely can be done , but one has to want to do it.