Maximum size of kris?

BSMStar · 10th July 2006, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

9mm is a .38 (well, actually a .38 is really a .357 and a 9mm converts to .355 in, but a lot of 9mm's have .357 barrels & they are basically & technically the same) the beretta is obviously not a .38 revolver, but ...)

Sorry to disagree, but the 9mm Parabellum (for war) was introduced in 1902 by the Germans with the well prized "Luger," and I would not try to chamber a .38 in a 9mm weapon.

LOL.

I would love to debate the differences but I do not wish to hijack this thread.

kronckew · 10th July 2006, 06:41 AM

you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. some dead horses like beating also. the thread has been hijacked already by picking up and disagreeing with what was meant to be a marginal aside on my original discussion of the 'terminal ballistics' of moro edged weapons against US troops. i offer the following to try to terminate this discussion as i do not want anyone left with incomplete facts.

those who have been a gun nut or been involved in hand loading & Terminal Ballistics (linky) will see my point. if i'd a said 9mm parabellum cartridge and/or .38 long colt, .38 special, etc. you might have a leg to stand on, but talking about bullet diameter there is no practical difference and they are in the same family, and the effect on a target especially will be very closely the same given the same construction, velocity and bullet weight. the 9mm is classed as a .38 caliber weapon, 9mm is just the european measurement for what is called a .38 in the US (actually .36, but called .38 for reasons not germain) the .002 inch difference in diameter only matters to handloaders, again, some 9mm weapons actually have .357 bores & may be more accurate with .357 hand loads in their 9mm parabellum cases. i won't get into mfg. tolerances, wear, rifling differences and their effects on bore dia. either. the above linky on terminal ballistics has more info than can be adequately covered here for anyone who wants to continue..

so, anyone who is chambering a 9mm parabellum cartridge IS effectively chambering a .38 caliber bullet.

Mudi · 11th July 2006, 03:36 AM

This is our longest keris. It is 148 cm long to end of peksi. It has 21 luk. Most luk we have seen in old keris. The blade weighs 1.5 kilo and it has a very nice belalai gajah and good pamor. We think this keris from east Java maybe Madura. This keris just for ceremony. This keris I gave my son when 21 who holds it now for you.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-...aduraBagus.jpg

This keris next was belong by Pak Ida Bagus Dibia in Bali. It is from Madura and about 150 cm long.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-...isPakDibia.jpg

Alam Shah · 11th July 2006, 04:27 AM

Wow! Keris used by giants...

Mudi, are you the one holding the 1st keris?

The 2nd keris, the one holding it,
Isn't that the author of Keris Bali/Balinese Keris?

Interesting...

Mudi · 11th July 2006, 04:50 AM

Holding first keris is my son Jonny. He is 27. I am 58. Yes, Pak Dibia wrote the book Keris Bali. I knew him in Denpasar some years ago, but I think he is dead now, or someone told me. He was Ida Bagus or high caste.

Naga Sasra · 11th July 2006, 12:21 PM

Mudi

Thank you for posting the photos of the long kerises, Mick earlier in this thread mentioned a couple of uses for these specimens.

You mentioned their use for ceremony, kindly explain what specific ceremony they would be used for and in what parts of Indonesia to the best of your knowledge, other than the uses Mick mentioned.

I have two of these in my collection and have over the years been told many a story about their use and would appreciate your knowledge on the use of these pieces.
Thank You for bringing these out front!

Mark · 11th July 2006, 09:24 PM

I am glad to see that the discussion has now left the subject of balistics and returned to the original topic.

A. G. Maisey · 11th July 2006, 10:58 PM

Thank you for posting photos of these fabulous keris, Pak Mudi.

Naga Sasra has raised the question of what ceremonies these might be used in, and I also would be very interested to have your thoughts on this.

However, if they are indeed ceremonial keris, then I would suppose that they are quite old.

How old do you imagine the keris in your possession might be?

malaysialounge · 4th August 2006, 04:13 AM

hello from malaysia,

In the Malacca (malaysia) museum, theres few kris about 1-3 meters.
I totally forgot the size already but it was huge and in meters, and more than 1 or 1.5m..

i'll check if i go there again sometime.

10th July 2006, 06:41 AM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. some dead horses like beating also. the thread has been hijacked already by picking up and disagreeing with what was meant to be a marginal aside on my original discussion of the 'terminal ballistics' of moro edged weapons against US troops. i offer the following to try to terminate this discussion as i do not want anyone left with incomplete facts. those who have been a gun nut or been involved in hand loading & Terminal Ballistics (linky) will see my point. if i'd a said 9mm parabellum cartridge and/or .38 long colt, .38 special, etc. you might have a leg to stand on, but talking about bullet diameter there is no practical difference and they are in the same family, and the effect on a target especially will be very closely the same given the same construction, velocity and bullet weight. the 9mm is classed as a .38 caliber weapon, 9mm is just the european measurement for what is called a .38 in the US (actually .36, but called .38 for reasons not germain) the .002 inch difference in diameter only matters to handloaders, again, some 9mm weapons actually have .357 bores & may be more accurate with .357 hand loads in their 9mm parabellum cases. i won't get into mfg. tolerances, wear, rifling differences and their effects on bore dia. either. the above linky on terminal ballistics has more info than can be adequately covered here for anyone who wants to continue.. so, anyone who is chambering a 9mm parabellum cartridge IS effectively chambering a .38 caliber bullet. Last edited by kronckew; 10th July 2006 at 07:50 AM.

11th July 2006, 03:36 AM	#3
Mudi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Makassar, (Ujung Pandang), Sulawesi, Indonesia Posts: 38	This is our longest keris. It is 148 cm long to end of peksi. It has 21 luk. Most luk we have seen in old keris. The blade weighs 1.5 kilo and it has a very nice belalai gajah and good pamor. We think this keris from east Java maybe Madura. This keris just for ceremony. This keris I gave my son when 21 who holds it now for you. http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-...aduraBagus.jpg This keris next was belong by Pak Ida Bagus Dibia in Bali. It is from Madura and about 150 cm long. http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-...isPakDibia.jpg Attached Images

11th July 2006, 12:21 PM	#6
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	Processional and Ceremonial Keris Mudi Thank you for posting the photos of the long kerises, Mick earlier in this thread mentioned a couple of uses for these specimens. You mentioned their use for ceremony, kindly explain what specific ceremony they would be used for and in what parts of Indonesia to the best of your knowledge, other than the uses Mick mentioned. I have two of these in my collection and have over the years been told many a story about their use and would appreciate your knowledge on the use of these pieces. Thank You for bringing these out front! Last edited by Naga Sasra; 11th July 2006 at 12:36 PM. Reason: Hit the wrong key on the computer

11th July 2006, 04:27 AM	#4
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Wow! Keris used by giants... Mudi, are you the one holding the 1st keris? The 2nd keris, the one holding it, Isn't that the author of Keris Bali/Balinese Keris? Interesting...

11th July 2006, 04:50 AM	#5
Mudi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Makassar, (Ujung Pandang), Sulawesi, Indonesia Posts: 38	Holding first keris is my son Jonny. He is 27. I am 58. Yes, Pak Dibia wrote the book Keris Bali. I knew him in Denpasar some years ago, but I think he is dead now, or someone told me. He was Ida Bagus or high caste.

11th July 2006, 09:24 PM	#7
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	I am glad to see that the discussion has now left the subject of balistics and returned to the original topic.

11th July 2006, 10:58 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Thank you for posting photos of these fabulous keris, Pak Mudi. Naga Sasra has raised the question of what ceremonies these might be used in, and I also would be very interested to have your thoughts on this. However, if they are indeed ceremonial keris, then I would suppose that they are quite old. How old do you imagine the keris in your possession might be?

4th August 2006, 04:13 AM	#9
malaysialounge Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1	hello from malaysia, In the Malacca (malaysia) museum, theres few kris about 1-3 meters. I totally forgot the size already but it was huge and in meters, and more than 1 or 1.5m.. i'll check if i go there again sometime.