Hunting sword - Hirschfanger for comments

[fernando]

Thank you so much for your input, Akanthus ! My friend is reading these notes !

[Jim McDougall]

This is a most attractive example of 'hirschfanger' , hunting hanger and I agree likely in first half 18th c. There can be little doubt the blade is a Solingen product as from the beginning of the 18th c. the swordsmiths there established a virtual monopoly for supply of blades to the cutlers of Europe (Blackmore, "Hunting Weapons", 1971, p.41).

The styling of the hilt is of course basically as found through Germany, and followed basically throughout Europe with the guard shell extending down from hilt to provide palate for the high relief themes often employed on these.
The decorative convention of the grip material does resemble 'chinoserie', the European favor for Oriental styling in the 18th c.

The blade decoration follows the often elaborate themes including both mystical and religious elements reflecting the profoundly serious and celebrated art of 'the hunt' which was elaborately followed by the gentry and nobility. While often there were mystical devices and symbolism as well as accompanying interlaced strapwork designs (following talismanic forms of Eastern Europe), sprays of foliage and sometimes martial trophies also were used.

In this case, I am wondering if the dynamic image of the stag falling might be hubris oriented? that is, the rays might suggest, rather than explosion, the 'point of hit'.....?
in other words, suggesting a stag hit by shot while 'on the run', more notable feat of a skilled hunter.

These hangers were actually also very much 'court swords', which is why they are typically included in reference material on these. While elaborately decorated, it seems that often this did not preclude their wear on the hunt for fear of damage from hard use. I had always thought that the task of field dressing was to the accompanying 'employees' of the noble figures, and that the actual 'kill' was seldom using these hangers.

[fernando]

Noted Jim; thanks much.

[Akanthus]

Hello Jim,
It was the privileg of the ruler to kill the stag with the edged weapon when it was caught and helt by the dogs.I was always astonished how a often elderly untrained man would manage it to kill a wild stag that certainly defenses himself by kicking and using his antlers.Visiting the hunting castle od Friedrich Wilhelm I.,the father of Friedrich II ( the great ) in Wusterhausen near Berlin, i found a picture showing him while killing a stag finaly.The stag was hold by hunters to the ground ,so that the rather well-built king was endangered in no way .Often the tendons of the back legs where cut so that the animal had no chance to run away.That was made wirh a bent hunting sword we call Praxe.The deadly strike was then made with the straight hunting sword ,the Hirschfänger.Yes ,cruel procedures and not imaginable in our times.I think a weapon to be used for these things must have a sufficient stability .These with rather short blades,tiny and fine hilts or porcelain grips where certainly made for presentation of the rank of the owner than for hunting use.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Akanthus

... .Yes ,cruel procedures and not imaginable in our times...

So, save us from the details !

[Akanthus]

Originally Posted by fernando

So, save us from the details !

Yes Fernado ,would be better.But sadly most of the things discussed here in the forum weren't made to delight todays collectors...

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Akanthus

Yes Fernado ,would be better.But sadly most of the things discussed here in the forum weren't made to delight todays collectors...

Discussing antique weapons is like discussing sex; doesn't have to be explicit .

[Akanthus]

Originally Posted by fernando

Discussing antique weapons is like discussing sex; doesn't have to be explicit .

" Sin and shame do not remain hidden." Faust I ,a tragedy.J.W. Goethe

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by fernando

Discussing antique weapons is like discussing sex; doesn't have to be explicit .

VERY well said Fernando!!!! and I think you have eloquently placed a quote there quite worthy to parallel of the profound philosophy of Goethe.

While I always appreciate responses and elucidation to subject matter being discussed, I do not think that detailed elaboration is necessary to describe the obvious manner in which an edged weapon is used.

To respond to the 'interesting' view stated, pertaining to the things 'discussed' here on this forum, the reference to 'delight of 'todays' collectors, is poignantly taken. The objectives here have always been, since the inception of this forum, to further our understanding of the arms and armor through historic times by discussion and examination of actual examples.
Following the theme intended in this response, I will withhold my sentiments toward 'the delights of 'todays' collectors.

I will say that my personal odyssey in the study of swords began a few years ago, actually in the early 60s as a youngster obsessed with history, in particular the weapons used in early movies of course. Since then I have studied voraciously, and indeed even collected as I could.

In my study of these weapons, I must admit that I have never found the grim reality of the actual use of them necessary in looking into their character from an artistic point of view. My focus has always been on the character of the design, elements, decoration, markings and inscriptions as obviously reflective of the history imbued in each example.

Returning to my earlier post noting that 'hunting hangers', while often highly decorated and embellished, indeed were often 'PUT TO HARD USAGE' (Blackmore, 1971, p.19).

While I appreciate the fact that this usage would of course include 'the kill', OBVIOUSLY....of course the noble hunter would carry this out! Why else would he participate in the hunt?


Blackmore notes (p.31) that:
"...few of the hunting swords worn with such apparel can ever have been intended for action, although their owners made certain that they lacked nothing in splendor for the occasion".

Further, noting Bashford Dean (his 1929 catalog) dismissed them as "..degenerate court swords small enough to be conveniently carried in the forest, to be used on very rare occasions to defend the wearer (very ineffectively) from enraged boar or stag, daintily to bleed the game but never to function in butchery".

Here I would point out that Howard Blackmore in this profoundly thorough book on hunting weapons, nor Bashford Dean in his venerable catalog of 1929 (a treasure!) , neither resort to garish or gory details in these, the most effective studies of these weapons.