Is it a keris handle and when yes from where?

Gustav · 21st June 2023, 11:00 AM

Detlef,

I am sorry, I can not reach my references for some time now.

Gavin Nugent · 22nd June 2023, 04:29 AM

Puzzling pieces indeed. Is it a precursor to the Hulu Burung Serindi as it is known today?

I have seen the type noted as simply as Hulu Burung too and that the Hulu Burung Serindi is a more modern reference to the type.... typically noted as being from East coast Peninsular but also reputed to be seen the Perlis region.

I see some of the art pointing to peninsular but predates known interpretations of the form...

A. G. Maisey · 22nd June 2023, 07:34 AM

A burung serindit is a parakeet, a love bird, but a serindai is an evil spirit.

Serindi I know not.

However, birds in general and cockatoos in particular are regarded as messengers between the living and the dead, a link to the unseen world, and thus to the ancestors.

Hilt figures can sometimes be regarded as ancestral figures, and the burial position in some SE Asian cultures is echoed in the position of some hilt figures.

I think I might be able to see a cockatoo in this hilt form, and if so then I believe I am seeing a reference to an ancestor.

jagabuwana · 23rd June 2023, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

A burung serindit is a parakeet, a love bird, but a serindai is an evil spirit.

Serindi I know not.

I believe that a Malay pronunciation of 'serindit' would be with a barely audible t at the end, a subtle glottal stop. I think 'serindi' might just be a closer-to-phonetic rendition of that.

A. G. Maisey · 23rd June 2023, 05:05 AM

Yes, you are of course correct Jaga, but we're using text, not voice so it sort of helps a bit for non-speakers of these languages if they have more or less generally accepted spellings they can work with when they do their further research to help answer all the questions that our little exchanges surely generate for them.

jagabuwana · 23rd June 2023, 07:48 AM

Totally agree Alan, it would be better to use the correct or generally accepted spelling when we can, so as to not cause any confusion.

21st June 2023, 11:00 AM	#1
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	Detlef, I am sorry, I can not reach my references for some time now.

22nd June 2023, 04:29 AM	#2
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Puzzling pieces indeed. Is it a precursor to the Hulu Burung Serindi as it is known today? I have seen the type noted as simply as Hulu Burung too and that the Hulu Burung Serindi is a more modern reference to the type.... typically noted as being from East coast Peninsular but also reputed to be seen the Perlis region. I see some of the art pointing to peninsular but predates known interpretations of the form...

22nd June 2023, 07:34 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	A burung serindit is a parakeet, a love bird, but a serindai is an evil spirit. Serindi I know not. However, birds in general and cockatoos in particular are regarded as messengers between the living and the dead, a link to the unseen world, and thus to the ancestors. Hilt figures can sometimes be regarded as ancestral figures, and the burial position in some SE Asian cultures is echoed in the position of some hilt figures. I think I might be able to see a cockatoo in this hilt form, and if so then I believe I am seeing a reference to an ancestor.

23rd June 2023, 05:05 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Yes, you are of course correct Jaga, but we're using text, not voice so it sort of helps a bit for non-speakers of these languages if they have more or less generally accepted spellings they can work with when they do their further research to help answer all the questions that our little exchanges surely generate for them.

23rd June 2023, 07:48 AM	#6
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 290	Totally agree Alan, it would be better to use the correct or generally accepted spelling when we can, so as to not cause any confusion.