N. Indian Hammer Flail

[Tim Simmons]

Okay cleaned this up.

I think there is a chance this is Sudanese, if there were thuluth then there would be no questions. Take pics of this axe I once had. Nice forged blade slipped on to a piece of steel pipe. Although I never tried to unscrew the spear top I bet it is screwed in. The end is also a piece of steel pipe, the haft being wood. The pictures will come all mixed so you will need to concentrate.

Now to the pics of the Flail components. If you look carefully you can see that the thread on the screw thing is hand cut and the eye thing is hand forged. I am not an expert but this seems a little odd for late 19th century industry supplied European work. The spike is assembled on a piece of steel pipe as is the thuluth axe. I am not able to show now, but on the acid etch cleaning of the spike you could see the mix of forged steels which again seems odd in industrial supplied Europe. The screw bit on the spike is riveted in the same manner and as I said earlier to secure the spike on impact. The ball pieces on the haft are rather simply cast as you can see by the irregular hole. I shall leave it at that. Make your own mind up as have I. If you can show mw a similar constructed European version then it will be settled.

[Turkoman.khan]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Okay cleaned this up.

I think there is a chance this is Sudanese, if there were thuluth then there would be no questions. Take pics of this axe I once had. Nice forged blade slipped on to a piece of steel pipe. Although I never tried to unscrew the spear top I bet it is screwed in. The end is also a piece of steel pipe, the haft being wood. The pictures will come all mixed so you will need to concentrate.

Now to the pics of the Flail components. If you look carefully you can see that the thread on the screw thing is hand cut and the eye thing is hand forged. I am not an expert but this seems a little odd for late 19th century industry supplied European work. The spike is assembled on a piece of steel pipe as is the thuluth axe. I am not able to show now, but on the acid etch cleaning of the spike you could see the mix of forged steels which again seems odd in industrial supplied Europe. The screw bit on the spike is riveted in the same manner and as I said earlier to secure the spike on impact. The ball pieces on the haft are rather simply cast as you can see by the irregular hole. I shall leave it at that. Make your own mind up as have I. If you can show mw a similar constructed European version then it will be settled.

Excellent Sudanese axes. I like very much. Can be used as a weapon.
Let's take another look at your photos. I see a "war hammer". But his "thorn" is strangely turned. In order to fight, it would be logical to deploy it, as I do in the first photo.
Now about the second photo. Do you think that such a connection of flail balls with a handle is reliable? Ok, let's say this connection is reliable. But why so many difficulties, if you can make a connection by simply making a hole in the handle and fixing the ring in it?

[Nihl]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Okay cleaned this up.

I think there is a chance this is Sudanese, if there were thuluth then there would be no questions. Take pics of this axe I once had. Nice forged blade slipped on to a piece of steel pipe. Although I never tried to unscrew the spear top I bet it is screwed in. The end is also a piece of steel pipe, the haft being wood. The pictures will come all mixed so you will need to concentrate.

Now to the pics of the Flail components. If you look carefully you can see that the thread on the screw thing is hand cut and the eye thing is hand forged. I am not an expert but this seems a little odd for late 19th century industry supplied European work. The spike is assembled on a piece of steel pipe as is the thuluth axe. I am not able to show now, but on the acid etch cleaning of the spike you could see the mix of forged steels which again seems odd in industrial supplied Europe. The screw bit on the spike is riveted in the same manner and as I said earlier to secure the spike on impact. The ball pieces on the haft are rather simply cast as you can see by the irregular hole. I shall leave it at that. Make your own mind up as have I. If you can show mw a similar constructed European version then it will be settled.

The fact that this piece is screwed together settles it for me. Real indian weapons weren't made to be disassembled like this, and certainly not with a screw thread. This object is purely decorative and was never made to be used (imho).

[Tim Simmons]

Unless someone hit you with it. I think a lot of simple weapons where made in the Mahdist period and may well have been used. I see no reason why the axe for example would not be able to slice half an opponents face off. The flail in the mediaeval Mahdist army melee would surly hurt one or two.

[Turkoman.khan]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Unless someone hit you with it. I think a lot of simple weapons where made in the Mahdist period and may well have been used. I see no reason why the axe for example would not be able to slice half an opponents face off. The flail in the mediaeval Mahdist army melee would surly hurt one or two.

It is certainly an interesting and curious object. But, I don't think anyone has ever used it as a weapon. The Sudanese Mahdists would not make such complex, awkward and impractical designs...
This is a good item for the interior.

[Turkoman.khan]

Originally Posted by Nihl

The fact that this piece is screwed together settles it for me. Real indian weapons weren't made to be disassembled like this, and certainly not with a screw thread. This object is purely decorative and was never made to be used (imho).

Undoubtedly!!!