Use of Actual Vintage Arms as Props in Early Films

Jim McDougall · 11th April 2023, 08:59 PM

Thank you so much for this entry Ken! How exciting to see this outcome, which is a perfect illustration of the existence of actual weaponry which became clouded by presence among weaponry used by studios for films. As Ian has noted earlier, often standard military weapons were altered to simulate the types of weapons of the period and setting.

It is interesting that as films relied heavily on action scenes, especially with the silent films, dramatically exaggerated and intense action often resulted in a degree of accidental injury to the actors. Often actual fencing sabers of the time were used as they were lighter and 'faster' to accommodate such movement.

GP, Hooray for your daughter!!!!! I am totally with you, when I was a 'young lad' too.....in '56 when the first Zorro series with Walt Disney's productions began, and this was what set me on a lifelong odyssey with swords.
When I finally took fencing my dad scoffed, 'great Jim, something you can always use!

Jim McDougall · 11th December 2023, 04:28 PM

In current research and concerning early films, in particular the black & white of course, the actors were typically heavily made up so their expressions were visible to accentuate the drama in sequences.

I discovered it was not just the actors who were 'painted' but also furniture, props etc............and for our purposes here.....WEAPONS!

Over the years, on occasion many old weapons coming up for sale had been painted many years before. I was of course always horrified by this, wondering what sort of fiend would do this to a wonderful old sword!?

Apparently, different colors would photograph differently in the old film and lighting, and it was necessary to use varied colors to achieve harmony in the setting, otherwise it would be a virtual kaleidoscope of imagery.
They actually had coded paint colors to be used in certain situations or in alignment with other colors in object groupings.

So it would seem very likely that these garishly painted old weapons may well have been used in early films as props.

werecow · 14th October 2024, 09:56 PM

Not exactly an "early" film, but... Interesting wizard staff design you got there, Lord of the Rings: Rings of Power...

Jim McDougall · 20th October 2024, 05:24 PM

Just found out that the walls of the Addams family house in the TV series were PINK!!! theres a Halloween tidbit.

werecow · 5th January 2025, 02:32 AM

Again, not an early film, but was watching Dune: Prophecy, and, well...

Name: 20250105_032716.jpg
Views: 1658
Size: 93.8 KB

I think there's at least one ethnographic arms expert on staff in Hollywood doing the rounds in the SF and Fantasy circuit. Which one of you is it?

EDIT: Argh. I don't know why this forum keeps flipping my pictures. But you know what it is.

David R · 30th January 2025, 03:32 PM

I did some filming for Disney back in the 1980's when they were setting up a "ride" for Disney World Paris. Interesting experience, and during preparation they were issuing some actors with original and genuine Ottoman armour!

Similarly when working for the BBC on the series "Soldiers" they dressed the battlefield with some original French Cuirasses. In both cases these had come from UK based Props/costume companies, and you could see multiple stick on labels from the previous hundred years or so.

Never got any pics at the time as it was pre phone-camera times, but here's some shots from the BBC production. Dunno who took them, but shared by my old reenactment group to Fb. Btw, I'm the French Sergeant in these shots. Great Days!

Jim McDougall · 2nd February 2025, 07:23 AM

David! Some FASCINATING background there! and its fascinating that you got to see this stuff firsthand. I keep recalling guys I knew who got some amazing pieces in auctions when they cleared out movie prop and costume warehouses in the 70s.
I heard of a dealer who furnished numbers of authentic weapons on loan for "Pirates of the Caribbean" and another who had various Spanish colonial arms and items (even antique ox arts) for period movies.

11th December 2023, 04:28 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,194	PAINTED WEAPONS In current research and concerning early films, in particular the black & white of course, the actors were typically heavily made up so their expressions were visible to accentuate the drama in sequences. I discovered it was not just the actors who were 'painted' but also furniture, props etc............and for our purposes here.....WEAPONS! Over the years, on occasion many old weapons coming up for sale had been painted many years before. I was of course always horrified by this, wondering what sort of fiend would do this to a wonderful old sword!? Apparently, different colors would photograph differently in the old film and lighting, and it was necessary to use varied colors to achieve harmony in the setting, otherwise it would be a virtual kaleidoscope of imagery. They actually had coded paint colors to be used in certain situations or in alignment with other colors in object groupings. So it would seem very likely that these garishly painted old weapons may well have been used in early films as props.

14th October 2024, 09:56 PM	#3
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 553	Not exactly an "early" film, but... Interesting wizard staff design you got there, Lord of the Rings: Rings of Power... Attached Images

5th January 2025, 02:32 AM	#5
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 553	Again, not an early film, but was watching Dune: Prophecy, and, well... I think there's at least one ethnographic arms expert on staff in Hollywood doing the rounds in the SF and Fantasy circuit. Which one of you is it? EDIT: Argh. I don't know why this forum keeps flipping my pictures. But you know what it is.

30th January 2025, 03:32 PM	#6
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,119	I did some filming for Disney back in the 1980's when they were setting up a "ride" for Disney World Paris. Interesting experience, and during preparation they were issuing some actors with original and genuine Ottoman armour! Similarly when working for the BBC on the series "Soldiers" they dressed the battlefield with some original French Cuirasses. In both cases these had come from UK based Props/costume companies, and you could see multiple stick on labels from the previous hundred years or so. Never got any pics at the time as it was pre phone-camera times, but here's some shots from the BBC production. Dunno who took them, but shared by my old reenactment group to Fb. Btw, I'm the French Sergeant in these shots. Great Days! Attached Images

11th April 2023, 08:59 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,194	Thank you so much for this entry Ken! How exciting to see this outcome, which is a perfect illustration of the existence of actual weaponry which became clouded by presence among weaponry used by studios for films. As Ian has noted earlier, often standard military weapons were altered to simulate the types of weapons of the period and setting. It is interesting that as films relied heavily on action scenes, especially with the silent films, dramatically exaggerated and intense action often resulted in a degree of accidental injury to the actors. Often actual fencing sabers of the time were used as they were lighter and 'faster' to accommodate such movement. GP, Hooray for your daughter!!!!! I am totally with you, when I was a 'young lad' too.....in '56 when the first Zorro series with Walt Disney's productions began, and this was what set me on a lifelong odyssey with swords. When I finally took fencing my dad scoffed, 'great Jim, something you can always use!

20th October 2024, 05:24 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,194	Just found out that the walls of the Addams family house in the TV series were PINK!!! theres a Halloween tidbit.

2nd February 2025, 07:23 AM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,194	David! Some FASCINATING background there! and its fascinating that you got to see this stuff firsthand. I keep recalling guys I knew who got some amazing pieces in auctions when they cleared out movie prop and costume warehouses in the 70s. I heard of a dealer who furnished numbers of authentic weapons on loan for "Pirates of the Caribbean" and another who had various Spanish colonial arms and items (even antique ox arts) for period movies.