my last keris

[JustYS]

Hi Marco,

Which reference are you using for the dhapur name?

According to Empu Djeno Harumbrodjo (from your old post), dhapur Mahisa/Kebo Selurung is as the following:

[Marcokeris]

Originally Posted by JustYS

Hi Marco,

Which reference are you using for the dhapur name?

According to Empu Djeno Harumbrodjo (from your old post), dhapur Mahisa/Kebo Selurung is as the following:

I reported only the name of dapur that the seller indicated to me at my request

[David]

It looks similar to Mahesa Kathong with luk, but no kembang kacang. An interesting blade.
That said i can see absolutely no logic in the reversed hilt and sheath positioning.

[Marcokeris]

in the other way, no possible....or possible but no good for ganja (too much inside or to much outside the wrongko line surface)

[JustYS]

Originally Posted by David

That said i can see absolutely no logic in the reversed hilt and sheath positioning.

Hi David,

If I understood correctly the following is the correct orientation of the blade and the hilt (right Marco?) hence the reversed sheath positioning. Very unusual dhapur indeed.

[Marcokeris]

Originally Posted by JustYS

Hi David,

If I understood correctly the following is the correct orientation of the blade and the hilt (right Marco?) hence the reversed sheath positioning. Very unusual dhapur indeed.

yes YustYs,.This is the only correct position of this kind of blade. If you change position is the same if you to put a right shoe on a left foot

[Marcokeris]

not the same daphur, but just to give the idea

[Marcokeris]

cengkrong 5 luk , perhaps...but probably not

[kai]

I beg to differ, Marco: At least from a Surakarta perspective, this seems to be a non-sequitur.

Blades of mahesa = kebo family (including dhuwung if I may) seem to be consistently oriented in the standard position (with the gandhik to the left, tip up). All keris of one of these dhapur variants that I've seen so far (including pieces in Yogya fittings) had been fitted to scabbards (and hilts) in the standard position, too.

The only exception seems to be dhapur cengkrong/cundrik which does seem to be mounted "backwards" - not sure if this is always done? (I've also seen a cengkrong/cundrik with regular gandhik and kembang kacang on the shorter side - kinda with dhungkul vibes.)

Maybe the tukang confused these similar dhapur families? The scabbard appears to be modern, correct?

Regards,
Kai

[Marcokeris]

please don't misrepresent what i write... i posted the picture taken from the Daphur book just to show why the handle is inside out

[kai]

Originally Posted by kai

(I've also seen a cengkrong/cundrik with regular gandhik and kembang kacang on the shorter side - kinda with dhungkul vibes.)

Here's the interesting blade with long cengkrong/cundrik-like gandhik and shorter regular gandhik (with kembang pogog).

It is fitted in reverse position as expected for regular cengkrong/cundrik.

Regards,
Kai

[A. G. Maisey]

This dhapur naming is perhaps a good example of the non-standardisation of keris terminology.

Marco's seller has given it as "Maeso Slurung / Nabrang " , "maeso" = "mahesa" = "kebo", kebo keris have a long gandhik, "slurung" is maybe from "selur" = "in a row", so maybe the name given indicates a "kebo keris with gandhiks in a row". Maybe.

However, if we use the Surakarta pakem as our reference, what we are looking at is dhapur Dhuwung Luk Lima.

Then we have dhapur "Mahesa Nabrang", this form has 15 luk.

Names used for dhapurs can & do vary from place to place, and within those places from group to group.

The Javanese language itself is not a standardised language --- according to linguists --- Javanese people famously have only one name, they do not use a family name, but that one name can change according to situation & context.

I do not believe it is possible to know all the name variations for pamors & dhapurs.

[A. G. Maisey]

Marco, just a gentle little hint:-

the word "dapur" means "kitchen" in Bahasa Indonesia.

the word "dhapur" means "shape or form" in Basa Jawa

"dapur" is not a Javanese word, "dhapur" is not an Indonesian word.

[GIO]

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

I reported only the name of dapur that the seller indicated to me at my request

Please look at the enclosure.
From "Ilmu Keris" by S Lumintu 1994