Kocet-Kocetan hilt form

[Wijaya34]

An old (Ivory?) Kocet-Kocetan hilt for sharing, it was found intact with a Jalak Budha keris.

[kai]

Thanks for posting this special hilt, Wijaya!

To me, this looks like an ancestor figural hilt (squatting posture with arms on both sides). Maybe Sumbawa?

Regards,
Kai

[milandro]

I can see a squatting figure but I don't think I can recognise the typical features of a Kocet-Kocetan (at least not the ones that I know as such)

[kai]

Yes, quite surely not from Bali, I believe.

[Wijaya34]

Hi everyone, the hilt was recently excavated in the new Kediri airport a few months ago, so It's likely not from Sumbawa or Bali. I was thinking that it might be some kind of prototypical Kocet-Kocetan hilt before it evolved into it's current form.

[milandro]

Originally Posted by Wijaya34

Hi everyone, the hilt was recently excavated in the new Kediri airport a few months ago, so It's likely not from Sumbawa or Bali. I was thinking that it might be some kind of prototypical Kocet-Kocetan hilt before it evolved into its current form.

It is really unlikely that this was a Kocet-Kocetan shape and in fact it is possible that it is the reverse which means that the Kocet-Kocetan evolved in other forms rather than other forms evolved into a Kocet-Kocetan

you can look this up about the evolution of this hilts here

[kai]

you can look this up about the evolution of this hilts here

Thanks for the reference, André!

I'm afraid the idea set forth in this paper is a non-sequitur for me: I'm missing an in-depth discussion why the author chooses to associate Madurese hilts with overwhelmingly similar overall features as well as shared motifs/details into 3 distinct categories: H3, Ins3, and I3. I'd like to see convincing evidence why all these Madurese hilts should be considered not more closely related to each other than to 3 very different "lineages" from a variety of cultures.

Regards,
Kai

[milandro]

Originally Posted by kai

Thanks for the reference, André!

I'm afraid the idea set forth in this paper is a non-sequitur for me: I'm missing an in-depth discussion why the author chooses to associate Madurese hilts with overwhelmingly similar overall features as well as shared motifs/details into 3 distinct categories: H3, Ins3, and I3. I'd like to see convincing evidence why all these Madurese hilts should be considered not more closely related to each other than to 3 very different "lineages" from a variety of cultures.

Regards,
Kai

You are right Kai, indeed it isn't clear, it seems as though the author seems to think that the Bali form of hilt making is the truest to the shape that it wants to represent and that the Madura form represents an " evolution" towards abstract form.

Whether this is what really happened it isn't possible to say, certainly not with that brief account given there.

[kai]

Hi everyone, the hilt was recently excavated in the new Kediri airport a few months ago, so It's likely not from Sumbawa or Bali. I was thinking that it might be some kind of prototypical Kocet-Kocetan hilt before it evolved into it's current form.

Thanks for the details, pak Wijaya!

Do you have more pics, please?

So, the whole ensemble is as excavated? (Not including the old scabbard, I guess?)

Regards,
Kai

[A. G. Maisey]

I cannot see any trace of the Kocet-Kocetan/Kusia form in the hilt shown in post #34, to me it looks like a humanoid form, perhaps generic ancestor figure.

[David]

Originally Posted by Wijaya34

An old (Ivory?) Kocet-Kocetan hilt for sharing, it was found intact with a Jalak Budha keris.

I'm afraid i'm with Milandro and Kai on this one. More likely an ancestor figure. I don't see any indication it could be an example of a kocet-kocetan hilt and i doubt it is even Balinese.
Doesn't look like ivory either, but better photos might reveal more.

[Gavin Nugent]

From a 2010 trip to Bali.