Comments, please on Turkish Knife, made from a file

Tim Simmons · 24th June 2006, 05:37 PM

Perhaps it is not from PI

and does come from areas around Turkey. The use of a file and of silver on the scabbard suggest it is from an area where good steel to fashion new objects was at least hard to come by.

katana · 24th June 2006, 05:52 PM

This is seems strange that a file is forged for the blade and yet the knife is well made, as is the sheath.
It seems that the craftsmen were available but quality steel was not (at least when this knife was made). Unless there was a shortage of steel at that time, perhaps, due to certain factors say, war, trade embargo etc.
This knife is a bit of a puzzle

Edited addition,
I didn't see your last post Tim until I posted the above.....it seems that we are drawing similar conclusions

TVV · 24th June 2006, 06:40 PM

I am with Ariel on this one as far as there is obvious North African influence on this dagger. Look at the zig-zag motif on the scabbard for example.

katana · 24th June 2006, 07:52 PM

When I first saw this knife I was thinking 'Flysa, North Africa with Arabic influences (silver work).
Now I've got the knife I'm not so sure it is North African at all. I can see why Tim saw P.I. as a possible source, I thought the silver work had similar designs to some of the Dha's I've seen on this forum. But the file blade !!! have knives from Africa been found to made from files. Obviously the Africans are very adept to using what they have available, but, I mean, for the better quality weapons would they have used a file?

If the knife is North African, can I assume that the silver work would only be found with a 'quality' knife?

Rick · 24th June 2006, 08:09 PM

Katana , files are often used for knife blades ; the steel is quite hard .
The zig zag motif is fairly generic ; the pommel looks like it is slightly eared .
I've got only guesses to offer here ; that rosette on the pommel looks familiar but I can't place it .

Tim Simmons · 24th June 2006, 08:18 PM

I do not know why I do not go with North African, to me it just not really there. The rough and the fine mixed like that.

Perhaps we are looking at something that is from what was widely known in the west as Arabia? Good steel would have been less available than in Africa?

Tim Simmons · 24th June 2006, 08:32 PM

Look at the end of the scabbard. This is Yemen silver work. The dome with the pyramid of balls. I could show some examples of jewelery

.

katana · 25th June 2006, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Katana , files are often used for knife blades ; the steel is quite hard .
:

Sorry, I didn't explain properly. I know WHY files are used to make blades (from a metallury point of view, carbon content etc.)
I meant culturally I have not seen or heard of a good quality African knife manufactured from a file. IMHO a file is an important tool, to any metalworker. Sure, when its badly worn, ....heat it ,...beat it and make a chisel or knife. But to then use it as a blade in a knife such as this one seems odd to me

As for the silver, I am almost certain it is .....does anyone know a test (non destructive please

) so that I can confirm Silver or not.

kronckew · 25th June 2006, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

As for the silver, I am almost certain it is .....does anyone know a test (non destructive please

) so that I can confirm Silver or not.

Some people say silver has a distinctive smell, or taste. if you are one of the lucky few, compare it with a known piece of silver.

most reliable tests are unfortuneately destructive or corrosive. you might get the black residue tested tho....

however, you could always try the black residue on a known werewolf & see if he has an allergic reaction. if you personally were a werewolf, you'd be sick by now....

do a google on 'testing for silver', it brings up all kinds of suggestions.

24th June 2006, 05:37 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,870	Perhaps it is not from PI and does come from areas around Turkey. The use of a file and of silver on the scabbard suggest it is from an area where good steel to fashion new objects was at least hard to come by.

24th June 2006, 05:52 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	This is seems strange that a file is forged for the blade and yet the knife is well made, as is the sheath. It seems that the craftsmen were available but quality steel was not (at least when this knife was made). Unless there was a shortage of steel at that time, perhaps, due to certain factors say, war, trade embargo etc. This knife is a bit of a puzzle Edited addition, I didn't see your last post Tim until I posted the above.....it seems that we are drawing similar conclusions

24th June 2006, 06:40 PM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,666	I am with Ariel on this one as far as there is obvious North African influence on this dagger. Look at the zig-zag motif on the scabbard for example.

24th June 2006, 07:52 PM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	When I first saw this knife I was thinking 'Flysa, North Africa with Arabic influences (silver work). Now I've got the knife I'm not so sure it is North African at all. I can see why Tim saw P.I. as a possible source, I thought the silver work had similar designs to some of the Dha's I've seen on this forum. But the file blade !!! have knives from Africa been found to made from files. Obviously the Africans are very adept to using what they have available, but, I mean, for the better quality weapons would they have used a file? If the knife is North African, can I assume that the silver work would only be found with a 'quality' knife?

24th June 2006, 08:09 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,343	Katana , files are often used for knife blades ; the steel is quite hard . The zig zag motif is fairly generic ; the pommel looks like it is slightly eared . I've got only guesses to offer here ; that rosette on the pommel looks familiar but I can't place it .

24th June 2006, 08:18 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,870	I do not know why I do not go with North African, to me it just not really there. The rough and the fine mixed like that. Perhaps we are looking at something that is from what was widely known in the west as Arabia? Good steel would have been less available than in Africa?

24th June 2006, 08:32 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,870	Look at the end of the scabbard. This is Yemen silver work. The dome with the pyramid of balls. I could show some examples of jewelery .