Shaolin Tai Chi Jian not Wudang, Wu Jian & Wen Jian, Taoist, Antique, Battle ready

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by JoeCanada42

I like mine better then those, your not clear if you are showing me examples u think are fake or authentic? those have no carvings but I can show you old ones with carvings.... and many new ones without.

I have shown you these threads where I think that are shown old examples and I want to show you that it's difficult to find the real deal, read through the given threads.
And what auction houses state is complete irrelevant, I have seen a lot of wrong described items by auction houses, I never believe them. Mandaus described as African machete or Asian weapons described as African and reverse.
Hope an expert joins in, like I said, I can be wrong.

Regards,
Detlef

[Gavin Nugent]

Sadly none of these swords, owned or pictured are genuine antiques but are of a very modern type, in some instances made to look older than they are.

Very few auction houses know what they are selling, they do it for the commissions and commissions out with every sale. This can be said too for specialist auction houses... I too have been fooled by clever images, lucky enough to be provided a full refund once substantiated.

Full length Jian prior to the Republican types and some of the more common pattern later Qing examples are simply extremely hard to find. I've have friends and clients on want lists here who have been chasing one for near a decade... and I actively seek such things daily.

Don't despair though, it is all a learning curve and plan to put some decent money aside to secure a genuine old one....

If you want something to practice with, there are a good many modern faithful reproductions... or choose a nice Republication example like this example pictured...
The one pictured is what I call a lucky find. That activity within the blade is actually hidden under an original bright steel polish... it is just the camera angle that bought it forth.

For collecting, dig a little deeper in to museum collections in the UK and USA... and there are a good many smaller museums elsewhere around the world with good material to study.

[JoeCanada42]

A 60-year-old Chinese farmer who found an old sword blade digging in the ground used it as a kitchen knife for several years before realizing its value and historical importance. He may have disallowed efforts to determine its exact age by polishing and sharpening it.

see photo


"Don't despair though, it is all a learning curve and plan to put some decent money aside to secure a genuine old one"

far more likely if I am to acquire another! quality genuine old one, it will be cheap, because its will be from a seller who was misinformed

I recently visited swords and antique weapons .com, they got a Mandau but I think mine is nicer and more genuine. more unique by many means.
I looked at the Jian's that have been selling over there, again none that I would ever trade for mine. infact I even saw presentation Jian swords sold over there...

I think a true treasure will never be sold at a retail dealer, the best treasure are found among the hoi polloi , made easier with ebay...

[JoeCanada42]

I have acquired many unbelievably hard to find even impossible to believe things , more so of late, for cheap ,way below retail, not from dealers or from pros, in fact u just cant find such treasure at dealers because good stuff moves up the chain with ease not put on market.

we all know old blades get remounted, some many times, how can any one say what is a reproduction without handling the blade or examining it, unless you have a stake in the matter , and want to influence public perception perhaps? in which case such biased comments I hope people take with caution..

always everything with a grain of salt, maybe dont trust auctions?, where good prices can be had. but can you trust dealers?

[Gavin Nugent]

If it quacks like a duck, it is usually a duck...

I wish you well with your "Pro" EBay "treasure" gathering, good things still turn up on occasion.

With thanks

Gavin

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by JoeCanada42

A 60-year-old Chinese farmer who found an old sword blade digging in the ground used it as a kitchen knife for several years before realizing its value and historical importance. He may have disallowed efforts to determine its exact age by polishing and sharpening it.

A typical late qing marking, nothing remarkable there.

Here are a few titles you could dig in to if you have interest in the types...

One of these titles in particular will show you the sword at least one of the above was copied from.

I've never really owned many to be fair.....

[JoeCanada42]

fair enough ,
thanks

I feel the ducks I buy are geese and they lay golden eggs

[JoeCanada42]

took a new photo and found another interesting one to compare,
with an almost completely degenerated depiction of a dragon?

[JoeCanada42]

closer up

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by JoeCanada42

I feel the ducks I buy are geese and they lay golden eggs

Joe, believe Gav or not, it's your choice. And for sure you can purchase treasures by epray but others also search there but to find the treasures you have to know your stuff.
I have been collecting now over twenty years and know a little bit about the area I collect but even after all the years and the little knowledge I've gathered I can get fooled.
Gav is a dealer, he knows his stuff well enough, you don't need to be skeptical.
Be happy that he told you the truth, there are other people here like Peter Decker for example, ask him by pm, I am sure that he will tell you the same.
Some others may don't join in because they are only smiling.
Sorry for my open words, it's not personal meant.

Regards,
Detlef

[werecow]

Originally Posted by Sajen

I have been collecting now over twenty years and know a little bit about the area I collect but even after all the years and the little knowledge I've gathered I can get fooled.

I've only been collecting a couple of years and my "oops box", as someone here once described it, has filled up depressingly quickly. (but also )

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Joe, believe Gav or not, it's your choice. And for sure you can purchase treasures by epray but others also search there but to find the treasures you have to know your stuff.
I have been collecting now over twenty years and know a little bit about the area I collect but even after all the years and the little knowledge I've gathered I can get fooled.
Gav is a dealer, he knows his stuff well enough, you don't need to be skeptical.
Be happy that he told you the truth, there are other people here like Peter Decker for example, ask him by pm, I am sure that he will tell you the same.
Some others may don't join in because they are only smiling.
Sorry for my open words, it's not personal meant.

Regards,
Detlef

Thank you Detlef, I appreciate your comments. It is a place of learning and we all learn from each post.

My words and insights about this sword may have been dry but were never intended to offend, but being affronted in the manner that was forthcoming, it was clear there is not going to be any change to belief about these swords.

I've no dog in this fight, to what end... but the good news is, the "good stuff" can be left for others.

To quote a resident expert of Chinese arms, a member within these pages, "it is about as kosher as a ham sandwich" ... afterall, it was he who helped me and a client out with a better presented modern Jian many years ago... for which a full refund was received...

Two words, Shaver Cool.....

Gav