Late medieval swords from Southeastern Europe

[Teisani]

Also these two: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...&postcount=118

[Teisani]

Regarding the second sword, with Stephen's coat of arms, and your observations:
- the aurochs head coat of arms is pretty typical for Moldova of that period. Agreed, here are some other Moldovan coins from earlier periods.
- the shield with half stripes is also common. Agreed.
- the crescent moon and star/sun... One probable reason would be Stephen's victory over Radu the Handsome of Wallachia (a Draculescu himself) in 1473, battle during which his daughters were taken prisoners. In 1480 Stephen actually marries the youngest of them, Maria Voichiţa, which becomes his third wife.

The problem is regarding the dates He marries her in 1480, yet the coins change the coat of arms from 1480 to something else. I base this on the coins you posted. So, this is puzzling.

A few thoughts on the Basarab dinasty coat of arms (of which the Draculesti and Danesti where branches). According to "Basarabii Valahiei, studiu heraldic si genealogic" 2017 by Tiberiu Frăţilă-Felmer, the shield coat of arms with the sun and crescent moon start with Vladislav II of Wallachia and linked with his raids of Transylvania in 1456. The position of these two elements change according with his political needs. See bellow the papers hypotesized cronology of Basarab heraldry. Coincidentaly, the last time it was used was in 1480 by Basarab IV.

Paper in english here:
https://www.academia.edu/30095489/Ba..._and_genealogy

Oh, and a few fun facts.
- this guy, Balassa Menyhért (Hungarian) also has an aurochs on his coat of arms. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...5&postcount=27
- I wonder if Poland-Lithuania might also be a source for that shield coat of arms. I don't think it's likely but look here:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/C...arnenczyka.jpg
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/C...int_768761.jpg

[Teisani]

A few more multi-fullered blades:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...9&postcount=62
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...0&postcount=63

[Reventlov]

Originally Posted by Teisani

The problem is regarding the dates He marries her in 1480, yet the coins change the coat of arms from 1480 to something else. I base this on the coins you posted. So, this is puzzling.

The Russian article that I pulled the images of Stephen's coins is here... maybe they say something about the change? I didn't translate the text.

Originally Posted by Teisani

A few thoughts on the Basarab dinasty coat of arms (of which the Draculesti and Danesti where branches)...
Paper in english here:
https://www.academia.edu/30095489/Ba..._and_genealogy

I was reading this too while writing my earlier posts. Surprised to see that the colours of Vlad Dracula's arms are not really known? Many sites claim the Draculesti arms were blue/red/gold, but I don't see what this is based on and the Basarab green/gold bars seem most logical.

Originally Posted by Teisani

I wonder if Poland-Lithuania might also be a source for that shield coat of arms.

The gold double-cross on a blue field belonged to the Polish Jagiellons, and Stephen was a Polish vassal - I don't know if there was a marital link as well. According to the Russian article, the double-cross first appeared on coins of Stephen II (r. 1434-47). Stephen and his family seem to have acquired the French lilies (later modified to a single double-headed lily) from the Angevin kings of Hungary, who divided their arms with the red/white bars of Árpád.

[Reventlov]

Originally Posted by Teisani

Also these two: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...&postcount=118

Yes, these are good examples of this distinctive style of disc pommel with a square boss. The museum in Bucharest has at least five of them, judging from the photos I have seen.

The one I have picked out shares many features with the sword from Brașov, as does another exhibited in Ukraine: the blade is type XXb and the quillons taper towards a distinctive central block. The combination is quite distinctive, and probably these swords were made by Transylvanian Saxons. A loose pommel of this type comes from Haragîș, Moldova.

One sword of this type was recently acquired by a fellow forum member, and is discussed here: http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22279. The hilt is very similar, but the blade has a single fuller, as do several of the swords in Bucharest. Its provenance is not known, but I think it can be safely grouped with the others.

Another unique example of a square pommel boss is the sword of King Sigismund the Old of Poland, dated c. 1520.

[Teisani]

More info on Moldovan swords at Topkapı Sarayı, Istambul. Looking through Carol König's paper I noticed that thee were 3 swords with multi-fullered blades. The sword with a single fuller and Dragos's coat of arms is missing. Which meant that there were 4 Moldovan swordst the palace. So I remembered that there is an older source in regarding these swords. "Buletinul Comisiunii Monumentelor Istorice 1935 anul XXVIII" contains the article "Odoare romăneşti la Stambul" by Emil Vârtosu. I posted it here for convenience (in Romanian), but the short version is this:

There are 3 Moldovan swords, in Fig.17, from left to right:

- 2635, the one with Dragos's coat of arms. No crosses, but a finely engraved sigil on the blade. Total length 126cm. It also mentions of a similar coat of arms of Bogdan I copied during the 15th century, residing at the Romanian Academi, ms. 5219. I have to look into that.

- 2636, Stephen's sword, with 4 crosses engraved on both sides of the blade the blade. Total length 125cm.

- 2637, the one with the aurochs & striped-shield coat of arms, 4 crosses engraved on both sides of the blade. Total length 126-127cm.

Other candidates:

- 2638, identical guard, and general shape to 2636 and 2367, same 4 crosses engraved. Pommel deteriorated, coat of arms discs on the pommel - missing. Total length 128-129cm.

- 2639, pommel deteriorated, no coat of arms, bent guard, 3 cosses instead of 4 but of similar placements. Total length 151cm.

- 2633 and 2343, similar guards as 2635's, finely engraved sigil on the blade. Coat of arms discs on the pommel - missing.

Note:
- the author likens the crosses to Maltese ones. Don't remember seeing goob photos of them on the originals, but on this gift replica given by the Turkish state to the Muzeul Manastirii Putna Romania (last photo).
- Konig's picture seems to be of 2638, 2636 & 2637 (left to right).

Of course, this article is old, and we would need some quality pictures of these additional swords to decide, although I think 2638 is probably from the same workshop as 2636 and 2637.

Source: https://patrimoniu.ro/images/BCMI/Bu...nul-XXVIII.pdf

[Reventlov]

Originally Posted by Teisani

So I remembered that there is an older source in regarding these swords. "Buletinul Comisiunii Monumentelor Istorice 1935 anul XXVIII" contains the article "Odoare romăneşti la Stambul" by Emil Vârtosu.

Great! Helpful photos for comparison. So much information to find in old articles - thanks for sharing. Probably the most comprehensive piece in English is David Alexander's two-part "European swords in the collections of Istanbul", in Waffen- und Kostümkunde (1985 and 1987). I do not think it is available online. I can share some images but the quality is not good.

Here are photos of the four-crosses mark on three of the four Moldavian swords. I think a common origin can be safely assumed.

No. 2639 has a type XXb blade, while the hilt has stereotypical Hungarian features: recurved quillons and squarish pommel. The marks on it are a little different: two thick crosses, and between them what seems to be an Italianate "twig" or knot mark. This thread is useful for comparison. Later I will share some examples that have more clearly Italian markings.

No. 2643 has the same type of hilt and is of more typical proportions. I will add also no. 2634, which appears to be another XXb, but the style of hilt is one very common in Germany at this time. The guards of both of these are covered in silver foil, which seems to be a Hungarian/Transylvanian trend. These and a number of other similar and contemporary swords are generally assumed to have been taken from Hungary by the Ottomans after the Battle of Mohacs (1526).

- Mark

[Reventlov]

I was already intending to post about no. 2633 next, as it has some other different but distinct features. The pommel is generally similar to previous examples, but octagonal instead of square. The guard is also silvered, and includes a tubular "rainguard" around the base of the blade. This can also be seen on the Dragoș sword. Alexander suggests this is another typical feature of Southeastern European swords (though it is not exclusively so). There is a coat-of-arms on the blade, half of bars (difficult to make out in photo) and half of teeth(?), which might refer to the house of Báthory.

[Teisani]

One more sword with typical East European features. Not sure where I got this pic from. Multiple fullers (very similar to those on Stephen's, although a bit wavy). S-guard associated with the Kingdom of Hungary. Square-ish pommel.

[Teisani]

More frescos from Dobromir the painter (before 1526) - church of the Argeș monastery, Wallachia. Triple fullers. http://clasate.cimec.ro/detaliu.asp?...08BEAC98E52292
http://clasate.cimec.ro/detaliu.asp?...1226B3B7C78102
http://clasate.cimec.ro/Detaliu_en.a...35AEC4ECF786F3
http://clasate.cimec.ro/Detaliu_en.a...E7A44BF19C41C7
http://clasate.cimec.ro/detaliu.asp?...60C3C0518072E4
http://clasate.cimec.ro/detaliu.asp?...65AFDBAC6AAD6C
http://clasate.cimec.ro/detaliu.asp?...9EA588D0529B3A
http://clasate.cimec.ro/Detaliu.asp?...78465BEFE65A33

The church of the Argeș monastery, founded by ruler Neagoe Basarab and Despina, was consecrated with great pomp on August 15, 1517. On this date, the monastic buildings were not finished either, the church being unpainted. The painting of the monument will be done during the reign of Radu de la Afumați (1522/1523 – 1524/1529) married to Neagoe's daughter, Roxanda, finishing in 1526, as the painted picture in the porch informs us. The text of the writing also tells us that the delay in the execution of the painting was due to the wars with the Turks, and it was completed on September 10. 1526 by Dobromir, at the urging of Mrs. Despina.

[Reventlov]

Originally Posted by Teisani

One more sword with typical East European features. Not sure where I got this pic from. Multiple fullers (very similar to those on Stephen's, although a bit wavy). S-guard associated with the Kingdom of Hungary. Square-ish pommel.

I found it! Source is here, the sword is in the Jósa András Museum, in Hungary. Very typical features overall, though the fuller arrangement (like the Moldavian swords) is not quite the norm - this is nitpicking though. This kind of roughly octagonal pommel, often very irregular in shape, is a common alternative/variant of the more strictly square and "cat's head" pommels. Aleksic classifies them as subtype Z2, and dates them to approximately the late 14th to mid 15th century. They also appear quite often on Hungarian sabers of this period, like these two examples from the National Museum in Budapest.