THE ENGLISH LONG BOW.

[fernando]

The Long Bow in action in Shrewsbury (1403) and the skills of John Bradmore.


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[kai]

Of course, the Asian compound bow also needs to be mentioned as a highly advanced distance weapon for military use.

Also the ancient method of javelin/"dart" plus "spear" thrower tends to be overlooked as an extremely efficient long-range projectile!

Regards,
Kai

[Peter Hudson]

Of course, the Asian compound bow also needs to be mentioned as a highly advanced distance weapon for military use.

Hello Kai, Indeed my bow is a Korean Short Bow and I have that in mind as well as Turkish and others. Im not sure about darts and Javelins etc and that could be another subject...although Border Rievers carried a Latch which was a small crossbow that fired a small arrow like a dart almost...
Regards Peter Hudson.

[Peter Hudson]

The question a lot of people ask is what is the furthest an arrow can be fired... The answer is that the Turkish Footbow appears to have that record... and this can be viewed at https://www.quora.com/What-was-the-l...medieval-times

The weapon fires an extraordinary arrow which has no feathers and is much thicker in the middle ... rather like an aircraft fusilage and a remarkable and aerodynamic design for its day.

[Peter Hudson]

Purely by coincidence a separate and up to now unexplored effect on piercing armour with arrows...on page 109 of The Reivers by Alistair Moffat "2017" Incoming arrows from English and Welsh bowmen at Agincourt while only slightly piercing the armour caused such agony as to force the French Knights to dismount and tear off the breast plate armour in the heat of battle...

This must have had a disastrous effect and a virtual pile up amidst deep muddy terrain and bang in front of the English line of defence.. in the killing zone.

Peter Hudson.

[Peter Hudson]

At Crecy another disaster for The French... This was probably inspired by the speed of the draw which for the English and or Welsh Bow men was about 20 a minute...five times faster than the French.

I am reminded that English Archers stuck their arrows in the ground ready to fire and here is another reminder of the lethality of the weapon...the point covered in earth was thus full of bacteria and made the damage to the enemy far worse.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Peter Hudson

The question a lot of people ask is what is the furthest an arrow can be fired... The answer is that the Turkish Footbow appears to have that record... and this can be viewed at https://www.quora.com/What-was-the-l...medieval-times

The weapon fires an extraordinary arrow which has no feathers and is much thicker in the middle ... rather like an aircraft fusilage and a remarkable and aerodynamic design for its day.

I realize that, to reach such extraordinary distances, an arrow requires a bow of dimensions greater than the one in the (quora) picture, even being the Turkish type.
Speaking of foot bows, i wonder whether the South American variant has connections with the Asian counterpart.
And speaking of long bows as per the term, remember the variant used by the Sirionó people of Eastern Colombia. Varying in size, depending upon the hunter, are all long, perhaps the longest in the world. On the average they range between 7 and 9 feet in length, although one was seen that measured 9 feet 7 inches. The Indians themselves have no explanation of why they use such a long bow, other than to say they were taught to do so by their fathers. They assert, however, that a short bow is no good. The explanation is probably to be sought in the manner in which the Sirionó use the bow in shooting. It is bent to the maximum distance allowed by the arms before the arrow is released. If a short bow were used, it is likely that the wood could not withstand the strain of the pull or that the hunter would not have sufficient strength to bend it to the desired degree.


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[Peter Hudson]

Originally Posted by fernando

The Long Bow in action in Shrewsbury (1403) and the skills of John Bradmore.


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Yes interesting bit of kit... Please see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LYeyO3Oa8o for a video covering the mediaeval surgical removal of arrowheads.

Peter Hudson.

[urbanspaceman]

This is a fascinating and much overlooked subject Peter, well-done for establishing this thread.
I am slowly working my way through the various links posted... thank-you.

[Peter Hudson]

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

This is a fascinating and much overlooked subject Peter, well-done for establishing this thread.
I am slowly working my way through the various links posted... thank-you.

Hello Kieth, Yes it is fascinating... and if you get a spare moment look at how Lars Anderson sees the Archery game. See https://www.google.com/search?q=arch...hrome&ie=UTF-8 Essentially he throws away the rule book and goes back to basic principles ... Regards Peter.

[Peter Hudson]

Hello all, It does seem that greasing the arrow shaft has some effect on arrow penetration. Tod goes on to experiment with arrows against various shields ... I should try to download one of his excellent video demonstrations on this subject.

Peter Hudson.

[Edward C.]

Were the bodkin points hardened ? As a amateur metal worker I would think that would be key to getting an initial "bite" on plate armor, so it would not skid off on an oblique impact.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Edward C.

Were the bodkin points hardened ? As a amateur metalworker I would think that would be key to getting an initial "bite" on plate armor, so it would not skid off on an oblique impact.

Tod mentions in one of his videos that they may have case-hardened them, but found examples have corroded so much that the hardened layer is gone. Some royal orders mention 'Iron' points, probably mild steel, but some mention 'Steel'. Might have been hardened.

He tried mild steel, high carbon steel (heat treated) and case-hardened. Recently, he made a video where they tested various arrows on a full suit of typical period armour. Arrows didn't make it thru the cuirass or helmets with any point types. Armour features did try to deflect any skidders from skidding up into the face areas. Most arrows splintered, tho some splinters went thru eye slits designed to stop arrow points from entering - which would ruin a knight's day. Some arrows DID penetrate thinner arm/leg/mail sections (i.e. Mail bevoirs) or bent joint pieces from impact. He also has made a video on leather covered wooden shields & arrows where the leather was glued on with some sand mixed in that made them much less penetrable.


Good experimental archaeology & worth watching.
(He's also done some on roman Pila, including one that had a pilum penetrate a helmet - an Olympic javelin thrower did the throwing - he reached 77 yards with one if I recall correctly.


One Note: 'Modern' sloped composite tank armour is touted as 'new', it isn't they used it in the hundred years war armour was shaped to deflect arrows, had layered armour (steel backed with mail, and padded gambesons).

[Peter Hudson]

Originally Posted by Edward C.

Were the bodkin points hardened ? As a amateur metal worker I would think that would be key to getting an initial "bite" on plate armor, so it would not skid off on an oblique impact.

Yes they may have done that although it seems that wooden arrows had the habit of snapping since they didnt exactly fly absolutely straight thus on impact were unstable and could break ... Interestingly had the arrows been made of metal they would probably have sailed straight through the armour...Anyway it does seem that greasing the shafts did enable much better penetration of shields and armour not to mention the damage to horses.

Armoured Knights at Agincourt thrown off their horses because they ...the horses ...had been hit by arrows...causing their riders to be ejected into the muddy battlefield would have been in a bad way and likely to have both been either badly injured and possibly trampled by those just behind them. This would have been bad enough had it only affected a few of the cavalry however, scores were dropped which must have caused mayhem and chaoss......The storm of arrows was enough to make the Knights turn their heads away so there was less chance of getting an arrow through their visors...

Regards, Peter Hudson.