Use of Actual Vintage Arms as Props in Early Films

kronckew · 11th February 2023, 07:45 AM

Jim, there are a number of posts on the forum about the Khevsurli.

My favourite story there is that in WW1 They got finally the word that the Tsar was recruiting men for the war with Germany & Austria-Hungary, so they gathered in their hundreds, Mounted, chain mail on all, shields, lances, swords, etc. and marched to battle.

Only to find the pass out was snowed in and impassible from a set of particularly hard winters. By the time it cleared, the war was over.

Jim McDougall · 11th February 2023, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

Jim, there are a number of posts on the forum about the Khevsurli.

My favourite story there is that in WW1 They got finally the word that the Tsar was recruiting men for the war with Germany & Austria-Hungary, so they gathered in their hundreds, Mounted, chain mail on all, shields, lances, swords, etc. and marched to battle.

Only to find the pass out was snowed in and impassible from a set of particularly hard winters. By the time it cleared, the war was over.

Thanks Wayne, that anecdote was recounted by Halliburton in "Seven League Boots". The thing was that these Khevsur warriors were still wearing mail and dueling with these swords when Halliburton was there. When I found the Khevsur sword I got, the guy thought it was Zaporozhian cossack...I only knew what is was because of the pictures in the book.

Getting back to the main topic,it seems there were numbers of weapons and armor made for plays and such performances before the silver screen days. I am wondering if anyone has seen any specific literature on this apparently very esoteric subject. Jerseyman, do you know of references?
The books you noted on the actors as swordsmen, but nothing on the weapons they used.

kronckew · 11th February 2023, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

.... I am wondering if anyone has seen any specific literature on this apparently very esoteric subject. Jerseyman, do you know of references?
The books you noted on the actors as swordsmen, but nothing on the weapons they used.

I have just acquired a 'Celtic/La Tene' sword, with an anthropomorphic hilt in cast bronze, nicely stamped 'Verch & Flothow', Charlottenburg' They made weapons for stage combat for the Charlottenburg Palace Theatre in Berlin late 19c/early 20c. They made swords for plays and operas covering all periods.

I can't find much by googling that, but I did find one of their rapiers that went for a multi-thousand Euro price recently.

I've been told they were made with German meticulousness, with the same methods an original antique one would have been.

You might be able to use that and branch out your research.

Jim McDougall · 13th February 2023, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

I have just acquired a 'Celtic/La Tene' sword, with an anthropomorphic hilt in cast bronze, nicely stamped 'Verch & Flothow', Charlottenburg' They made weapons for stage combat for the Charlottenburg Palace Theatre in Berlin late 19c/early 20c. They made swords for plays and operas covering all periods.

I can't find much by googling that, but I did find one of their rapiers that went for a multi-thousand Euro price recently.

I've been told they were made with German meticulousness, with the same methods an original antique one would have been.

You might be able to use that and branch out your research.

That is really helpful!! Thats the first definitive maker name I have seen.
Thank you so much!

kronckew · 16th February 2023, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

That is really helpful!! Thats the first definitive maker name I have seen.
Thank you so much!

Another name for you Aug. Schneider, Berlin.

From theatrical swords: (not mine) 19-20c

Lead Snowstorm · 23rd February 2023, 12:31 AM

For those interested in more 'modern' weapons, my most frequently encountered weapons with cinematic heritage tend to be the various trapdoor rifles (usually 1873-1884). On the one hand, they were of course the actual weapons used in the west, which was formerly a very hot subject of interest, although cooling lately.

On the other hand, as the last of the sidelock, hammer-fired rifles, they conveniently could fire cartridge blanks but be mocked-up to look like flintlocks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0lO...rgottenWeapons

https://www.invaluable.com/auction-l...5-c-121427f8a3

Ian · 12th March 2023, 03:01 PM

Jim,

I'm just getting to your fascinating thread on theatrical weapons. You mentioned people going through old movie companies' prop collections and culling weapons. In eBay's early days there was a Californian seller who had a ton of this stuff. I bought a few pieces. Of note were two swords from Yul Brunner's version of Genghis Khan (1965). Both swords were for extras. Each was a U.S. cavalry saber from the 1860s from which the hilt and guard had been removed and a crude aluminum hilt added. I still have them somewhere and I think I still have the sales docket from the late 90s/early 2000s. I believe the sabers came from Bannerman's Catalog originally and were modified on site by the props people.

I have a few other swords from the same source but I don't know which movies they may have been used in. Again, they were 19th C pieces, and from memory they were Austrian sabers (but I will have to dig back in my archives to get that info.).

Cheers,

Ian.

11th February 2023, 07:45 AM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	Jim, there are a number of posts on the forum about the Khevsurli. My favourite story there is that in WW1 They got finally the word that the Tsar was recruiting men for the war with Germany & Austria-Hungary, so they gathered in their hundreds, Mounted, chain mail on all, shields, lances, swords, etc. and marched to battle. Only to find the pass out was snowed in and impassible from a set of particularly hard winters. By the time it cleared, the war was over. Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 11th February 2023 at 08:43 AM.

23rd February 2023, 12:31 AM	#6
Lead Snowstorm Member Join Date: Jul 2022 Posts: 16	For those interested in more 'modern' weapons, my most frequently encountered weapons with cinematic heritage tend to be the various trapdoor rifles (usually 1873-1884). On the one hand, they were of course the actual weapons used in the west, which was formerly a very hot subject of interest, although cooling lately. On the other hand, as the last of the sidelock, hammer-fired rifles, they conveniently could fire cartridge blanks but be mocked-up to look like flintlocks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0lO...rgottenWeapons https://www.invaluable.com/auction-l...5-c-121427f8a3 Attached Images

12th March 2023, 03:01 PM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,362	Jim, I'm just getting to your fascinating thread on theatrical weapons. You mentioned people going through old movie companies' prop collections and culling weapons. In eBay's early days there was a Californian seller who had a ton of this stuff. I bought a few pieces. Of note were two swords from Yul Brunner's version of Genghis Khan (1965). Both swords were for extras. Each was a U.S. cavalry saber from the 1860s from which the hilt and guard had been removed and a crude aluminum hilt added. I still have them somewhere and I think I still have the sales docket from the late 90s/early 2000s. I believe the sabers came from Bannerman's Catalog originally and were modified on site by the props people. I have a few other swords from the same source but I don't know which movies they may have been used in. Again, they were 19th C pieces, and from memory they were Austrian sabers (but I will have to dig back in my archives to get that info.). Cheers, Ian.