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Old 20th January 2023, 05:40 PM   #1
Teisani
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Damn! Found another one of those depictions. This one is from Códice De Trajes, 1547.
http://warfare.ueuo.com/Renaissance/...Trajes-59v.htm

And here's what that hat is "Mamluk red zamṭ hat". So his hat was very much associated with the Mamluks.
http://blog.slow-venice.com/fashion-...demia-gallery/
http://warfare.ga/16/Carpaccio-St_Ge...nites-zamt.htm
https://www.rct.uk/collection/990062...uk-dignitaries
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki...the_Louvre.jpg
https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File...giorgio_01.jpg

So the similarity between Wallachian and Mamluk depictions seems to be a coincidence only.
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Old 20th January 2023, 10:48 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Teisani View Post
Damn! Found another one of those depictions. This one is from Códice De Trajes, 1547.
Nice! It is interesting to see how far the image circulated. A consequence of the original being a print that could be mass-produced, not a painting or drawing. In this case the caption Mosquwiter would mean "Muscovites"?! The other groups of horsemen are there too... the "Arabs" have become "Tatars".

http://bdh-rd.bne.es/viewer.vm?id=0000052132&page=1

Searching in connection with this new version I found that according to at least one 16th century Wappenbuch, the coat of arms seen in some of the versions was attributed to Osman I. I am quite sure that this should not be taken literally, but instead symbolizes the transfer of authority from the Byzantines to the Ottomans.

http://www.hubert-herald.nl/ByzantiumArms.htm
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Old 21st January 2023, 07:35 AM   #3
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...In this case the caption Mosquwiter would mean "Muscovites"?! The other groups of horsemen are there too... the "Arabs" have become "Tatars".
Nice catch! I missed the Tatar picture. I have on more example that shows how unreliable these old prints can be. More on that later.
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Searching in connection with this new version I found that according to at least one 16th century Wappenbuch, the coat of arms seen in some of the versions was attributed to Osman I. I am quite sure that this should not be taken literally, but instead symbolizes the transfer of authority from the Byzantines to the ...
That's a really nice find! And I agree with your conclusion.
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Old 21st January 2023, 09:36 AM   #4
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Here's another example how depictions get reused over time.

1 Báthory Zsigmond and George I Rákóczi.

https://ro.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiși...gmond_1596.jpg

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki...II_Rakoczy.jpg

2 Michael the Brave and Gheorghe Ștefan

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki...i_Viteazul.jpg

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki...and_02_311.jpg

========================

Also, another example of that wool hat that Wallachians are depicted with. Portrait of Michael the Brave. https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki...i_Viteazul.jpg
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Old 21st January 2023, 07:06 PM   #5
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Here's another example of the same depiction used for two different people, Bathory Istvan and False Dmitry I.

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki...33_-_1586).jpg

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki...ump-to-license
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Old 24th January 2023, 07:50 PM   #6
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This just gets weirder and weirder.

1 - two Michael the Brave portraits combined to give on Andrei Movilă/Andrzej Mohyła.
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki...i_Viteazul.jpg

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki...aiViteazul.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...rij_Mohyla.jpg

2 - how about this portrait of Bethlen Gabor (see attached picture), which is actually another portrait of Michael the Brave. Although this likely is a more modern mistaken identity.
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki..._Viteazul).png
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Last edited by Teisani; 24th January 2023 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 24th January 2023, 08:26 PM   #7
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Last examples:

1 - Gabor Bethlen with and without hat.
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki...d_01_439_2.jpg
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki...d_01_437_2.jpg

2 - Bocskai István with and without sabre.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ay-istvan1.jpg
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki...re_bocskai.jpg

After seeing all of this, I now have a healthy dose of scepticism when looking at these old depictions.
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