Sword for ID ... please

fernando · 19th January 2023, 10:58 AM

Thanks again, Gentlemen. That was the only picture my friend had from the dealer. Now he got a few more.

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Radboud · 19th January 2023, 11:18 AM

The engraving is very similar to what is on one of my French swords by Cassaignard in Nantes where he worked as a furbisher from 1774 to 1812. From what I have read, it is believed he used Solingen made blades, but the sword, sun and face in the moon images are common on his sword. I’d be curious to hear if there is any writing under the langets.

The scabbard as noted earlier looks more French than English, but the drag should be in steel not copper like this and mine, a sure sign that it’s a new replacement.

The hilt on the other hand looks to be 100% English, esp with the little detailing inside the top corner of the knuckle bow. However the grip leather and wire are too new in relation to the rest of the sword.

My thought is that this is a composite sword made out of a cut down blade.

Jim McDougall · 19th January 2023, 07:25 PM

Thank you for the added pics. Now seeing these markings I can see they are very much "Caissagnard' as Radboud notes. These kinds of cosmological symbols are typically associated with Solingen as noted as well, however their origins seem to be well associated with Eastern Europe. This is particularly the case with the arm and sword out of the cloud.

It is quite likely that Caissagnard got blades from Solingen, much as many cutlers/furbishers etc. did in the latter 18th c. I think the other sources in France may have used German blades as well, before Klingenthal was officially established in this time, though German makers were present in the shops.

In the latter 18th c. George III and his son, Prince of Wales (later George IV) like most of the gentry in England, were greatly influenced by things French. Despite the constant threat of war, it seems the contacts with French upper echelon remained at hand.

This hilt I agree looks very British, and the blade is most certainly shorter than it once was. It very well could be a blade which came through Nantes, but its final disposition is anybody's guess. Officers of all branches had carte blanche in their interpretations and fashion. Fascinating whatever it is.

awdaniec666 · 27th January 2023, 02:13 PM

These Solingen blades from the 1st half of the 18th century do appear oddly often on later hilts and are commonly shortened. This style of blade with its fullers was mainly made for East-Central Europe. Local production of a similar design however started in the mid 19th century as a consequence of patriotic and nostalgic momentum where these unfullered ricassos were used to place iconic or written dedications.

19th January 2023, 10:58 AM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thanks again, Gentlemen. That was the only picture my friend had from the dealer. Now he got a few more. , Attached Images

19th January 2023, 11:18 AM	#2
Radboud Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: New Zealand Posts: 276	The engraving is very similar to what is on one of my French swords by Cassaignard in Nantes where he worked as a furbisher from 1774 to 1812. From what I have read, it is believed he used Solingen made blades, but the sword, sun and face in the moon images are common on his sword. I’d be curious to hear if there is any writing under the langets. The scabbard as noted earlier looks more French than English, but the drag should be in steel not copper like this and mine, a sure sign that it’s a new replacement. The hilt on the other hand looks to be 100% English, esp with the little detailing inside the top corner of the knuckle bow. However the grip leather and wire are too new in relation to the rest of the sword. My thought is that this is a composite sword made out of a cut down blade. Attached Images

27th January 2023, 02:13 PM	#4
awdaniec666 Member Join Date: May 2021 Location: Central Europe Posts: 174	These Solingen blades from the 1st half of the 18th century do appear oddly often on later hilts and are commonly shortened. This style of blade with its fullers was mainly made for East-Central Europe. Local production of a similar design however started in the mid 19th century as a consequence of patriotic and nostalgic momentum where these unfullered ricassos were used to place iconic or written dedications. Last edited by awdaniec666; 27th January 2023 at 02:15 PM. Reason: picture upload not possible

19th January 2023, 07:25 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,194	Thank you for the added pics. Now seeing these markings I can see they are very much "Caissagnard' as Radboud notes. These kinds of cosmological symbols are typically associated with Solingen as noted as well, however their origins seem to be well associated with Eastern Europe. This is particularly the case with the arm and sword out of the cloud. It is quite likely that Caissagnard got blades from Solingen, much as many cutlers/furbishers etc. did in the latter 18th c. I think the other sources in France may have used German blades as well, before Klingenthal was officially established in this time, though German makers were present in the shops. In the latter 18th c. George III and his son, Prince of Wales (later George IV) like most of the gentry in England, were greatly influenced by things French. Despite the constant threat of war, it seems the contacts with French upper echelon remained at hand. This hilt I agree looks very British, and the blade is most certainly shorter than it once was. It very well could be a blade which came through Nantes, but its final disposition is anybody's guess. Officers of all branches had carte blanche in their interpretations and fashion. Fascinating whatever it is.