Sword fragment - opinions

[AHorsa]

Mark, thank you so much again!
Is there a date for the Romanian sword?

Kind regards
Andreas

[Reventlov]

I think the museum and publications have only dated it as 14th century. I would guess earlier in the century rather than later. Picture is from the article "Középkorikardok a Székely Nemzeti Múzeum gyűjteményeiben".

[AHorsa]

Originally Posted by Reventlov

I think the museum and publications have only dated it as 14th century. I would guess earlier in the century rather than later. Picture is from the article "Középkorikardok a Székely Nemzeti Múzeum gyűjteményeiben".

Thank you very much!

[Teisani]

It looks a bit like a few swords found in Transylvania:

1 - inv. 2874 at the Muzeul Judeţean Mureş (sword nr. 4) https://www.medievistica.ro/texte/ar...alan.htm#_ftn8

2 - inv. 3221 at the Muzeul Banatului - TIMIȘOARA http://clasate.cimec.ro/Detaliu.asp?...113EC1A12E6EF7 (higher res. https://mnab.ro/wp-content/uploads/2...afia-nr.-2.jpg)

3 - inv. M 3876 Hamba sword http://clasate.cimec.ro/Detaliu_en.a...B023C9CB1E1CF9 A more detailed description is here (page 95): https://www.academia.edu/10501840/Sp...iu_2007_ed_II_

4 - inv. 238 at Muzeul Național Secuiesc - SFÂNTU GHEORGHE http://clasate.cimec.ro/Detaliu.asp?...DA7DE866F82BDE

5 - inv. 237 at Muzeul Național Secuiesc - SFÂNTU GHEORGHE http://clasate.cimec.ro/Detaliu.asp?...61DACF386539D6

Hamba sword - the sword kept at the Brukenthal Museum under inventory number M. 3876, (Pl. 42-a) and discovered near Hamba (Sibiu county) is very similar to the one from Alba Iulia, and much better preserved. The total length of the piece is 1336 mm, and that of the blade 1112 mm. The edges gently converge to a sharp point, making the blade width decrease from 53 mm below the guard to 32 mm at the end of the grooves. These frets are 780mm long and have a maximum width of 17mm under the guard, also extending 23mm on the handle. In the radiographic analysis of this piece, an inscription could be observed in the median grooves, on each side of the blade, which could not be preserved for technical reasons. According to historians Gustav Gundisch and Zsigmond Jako, quoted by Martin Rill, it would be an inscription in Latin capitals dating to the second half of the 11th century or the first half of the 14th century. The handle bar measures 164mm in length and tapers from 34mm at the guard to 12mm at the knob entry. The guard measures 203 mm in length and is straight, rectangular in profile in the central part and circular towards the flared extremities. The discoid button has a maximum diameter of 53 mm and a thickness of 32 mm. It can be deduced from the shape and dimensions of the component parts of the swords from Alba Iulia and Hamba, that we are dealing with the same type of sword, which we call type. Vlllb, but with a slightly longer blade and equipped with a handle for one and a half hands, unlike the pieces from Făgăraş and Timisoara, equipped with handles for one hand. Thus constructed, the swords from Alba Iulia and Hamba lend themselves better to infantry combat, where both hands could be used for strong blows, without the risk of unbalancing the fighter. The pieces included by us in the Vlllb subtype are generally treated by the established typologies according to the shape of the button, which is why there are some differences in dating. R. E. Oakeshott, integrates such type "I" buttons, dating after the middle of the 13th century and not earlier than 1250. The same author defines the guard with flared ends as style "2", without proposing a date, but the examples given are on swords dated to the 11th century. A. Ruttkay defines the same button shape as the XVII type, exemplifying with a sword from Kalna nad Hronom, with a blade similar to those described above and inscribed, but with a handle for two hands and therefore datable to the 14th century. Due to the number large of such swords and their variety, A. B. Hoffmeyer divides the specimens with discoidal button, compiling three subtypes of the "111" group, respectively 111-a, 111-b and 111-c. The swords described by us above fall into the first two subgroups, exemplified by pieces dated between 1250 and 1350. In representations of figurative art, swords with a discoidal button are found very often, but the most significant example for knightly pieces remains the example in the hand to Count Eckehard, from the statuary group of donors "Eckehard and Uta" painstakingly made between the years 1255-1260 in the Naumburg Cathedral. In Transylvania, such a sword is rendered more stylized, but easily recognizable, on the oldest dateable medieval epitaph between the years 1320-1330, preserved in the evangelical church in Bistrita 607 (Pl. 43). Consequently, the pieces of type VIII can be broadly dated between the middle of the 13th century and the middle of the 14th century, a chronological space in which subtype Vllla occupies the first part of this interval, while subtype Vlllb extends from the last quarter of the 13th century to the middle of the 14th century. Of course, as already shown in chapter III of this work, the duration of the use of such weapons is difficult to establish. Clear proof of the use of a type VI 11 sword in the countryside, long after it was worn physically and morally by the military elites of the era, is provided by an engraving made by Albrecht Durer in 1495.

[AHorsa]

Very interesting information. Thank you, Teisani!

[shayde78]

For an Albert Durer engraving with a similar hilt being carried by a "peasant", see post number 8 http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=Albrecht in this thread of his works. I dated it to 1497, but I could have been off a few years (or the previous post in this thread references a different engraving).

Great sword, by the way!

[AHorsa]

Thank you very much for this interesting reference!!