An indian shamshir with a persian blade

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by Drabant1701

Many thanks all for your kind words. While browsing sold auctions at bonhams i found this sword with leather on wood and with gold applied in a similar manner as the subject sword. https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/18814/lot/46/

Great example, Drabant. Congratulations! In my opinion, you have found undeniable confirmation of the Indian origin of your shamshir.
The only pity is that Ariel will not please us with images of leather handles of shamshirs from Central Asia. I was so hoping to close the gaps in my knowledge on this subject.

[rand]

Hello,

You have a wonderful Shamshir. I have one question, on the spine of the blade near the cross guard, can you see any folds in the steel? And if so, is there anything inlaid into the exposed fold?

Thanks,
rand

[Drabant1701]

Originally Posted by rand

Hello,

You have a wonderful Shamshir. I have one question, on the spine of the blade near the cross guard, can you see any folds in the steel? And if so, is there anything inlaid into the exposed fold?

Thanks,
rand

There is a line all the way from the crossguard down to the tip along the back of the sword, it is filled with a silver like metal.

[kai]

There is a line all the way from the crossguard down to the tip along the back of the sword, it is filled with a silver like metal.

Sounds like a quality blade!

Can someone comment on the quite rough inlay done for the cartouche?

Regards,
Kai

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by kai

Sounds like a quality blade!

Can someone comment on the quite rough inlay done for the cartouche?

Regards,
Kai

Hello kai

You write that the inlay is rough. Why do you think so? Can you show an example of "graceful inlay"? For example, is this cartouche inlay elegant?

[kai]

Thanks for responding, both!

Originally Posted by mahratt

Can you show an example of "graceful inlay"? For example, is this cartouche inlay elegant?

I really can't tell since your pic only shows pixels when blown up to a comparable size, sorry.

Regards,
Kai

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by kai

Thanks for responding, both!


I really can't tell since your pic only shows pixels when blown up to a comparable size, sorry.

Regards,
Kai

[ariel]

Originally Posted by kai

Sounds like a quality blade!

Can someone comment on the quite rough inlay done for the cartouche?

Regards,
Kai

On the contrary: this is a very high quality inlay. Usually, the channels are just carved as straight lines. That’s why we often see inlays with lost wire segments.

This one is “zigzag-y” and its labor-intensive creation assures much stronger contact with the inserted wire. Yet another sign of a very high quality of work of the bladesmith.

Assadullah was regarded as THE best Persian badesmith, but the criteria were never defined. This blade, IMHO, would belong to the magical “Assadullah” class.

[kai]

Thanks again, both!

Originally Posted by ariel

On the contrary: this is a very high quality inlay. Usually, the channels are just carved as straight lines. That’s why we often see inlays with lost wire segments.

This one is “zigzag-y” and its labor-intensive creation assures much stronger contact with the inserted wire.

I know this style of inlay. This specific version seems rendered more coarse than others in this general style (not necessarily implying bad quality - just wondering whether this might start to affect the reading comprehension); I may not have looked in detail at enough Persian cartouches though.

I understand that the highest quality inlay utilizes undercut channels (i.e. widening below the surface level) which helps long-time retention of gold hammered into it.

Yet another sign of a very high quality of work of the bladesmith.

Was such inlay work actually done by the bladesmith himself or another artisan? Any differences between Persian workshops and other regions?

Regards,
Kai

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by kai

Was such inlay work actually done by the bladesmith himself or another artisan? Any differences between Persian workshops and other regions?

Kai

I think it's quite difficult to answer your question. The fact is that, in my opinion, Persian craftsmen did not necessarily work in Persia and did not necessarily apply cartouches to "classic" Persian blades.

[Drabant1701]

Originally Posted by kai

Sounds like a quality blade!

Can someone comment on the quite rough inlay done for the cartouche?

Regards,
Kai

I dont really see the roughness, the picture is an extreme closeup if you hold the sword and look at it the cartouche appers to be made of solid lines. The style with the cartouche being made of smaller cut rather then solid lines seem rather common on persian blades from this time period.
I looked through Arms and Armor from iran looking at similar cartouches, and i my opinion this one is very well excecuted with the cuts being the same size and the with good symetry.

[rand]

Originally Posted by kai

Sounds like a quality blade!

Can someone comment on the quite rough inlay done for the cartouche?

Regards,
Kai

As others have said, it is not "rough", the gold was originally thicker and was higher than the blade, it would have covered where the horizontal cuts are. It has worn off with time and scabbard wear to the wootz surface level. The style of the craftsman was most likely a Persian technique of inlay.

rand

[ariel]

Originally Posted by Drabant1701

There is a line all the way from the crossguard down to the tip along the back of the sword, it is filled with a silver like metal.

A “crack” on the spine is the remainder of the upper junky layer of a wootz ingot. Sometimes it remains empty, but sometimes it is filled with a silver wire. The trick of forging the ingot into the blade is to bring this part of ingot to the middle of the spine. Usually this “crack” is no more than ~10 cm long. I have never seen it going all the way to the tip. This would be a sign of a superb bladesmith. Can you show it?
The “crack is very helpful if the blade was oxydized and the wootz pattern is no longer visible. Then one can be sure that polishing and etching will bring the pattern back.

[Drabant1701]

Originally Posted by ariel

A “crack” on the spine is the remainder of the upper junky layer of a wootz ingot. Sometimes it remains empty, but sometimes it is filled with a silver wire. The trick of forging the ingot into the blade is to bring this part of ingot to the middle of the spine. Usually this “crack” is no more than ~10 cm long. I have never seen it going all the way to the tip. This would be a sign of a superb bladesmith. Can you show it?
The “crack is very helpful if the blade was oxydized and the wootz pattern is no longer visible. Then one can be sure that polishing and etching will bring the pattern back.

I will take some photos of this weekend.

[rand]

Originally Posted by Drabant1701

There is a line all the way from the crossguard down to the tip along the back of the sword, it is filled with a silver like metal.

The inclusion running down the spine is can be seen on better blades filled with silver or gold, gold being used in the best blades. Going down the entire spine would be unusual.

rand