Two Kilij for comments

[Drabant1701]

As mentioned earlier both are good old swords, as someone said most likely 19th century. I really like the smaller one, good untouched condition. I would call both Pala swords. I have one myself that is abot 85cm and 1100 grams. The smaller of yours seem very light and short, could it be for a child or youngster?

As someone mentioned in earlier post the smaller one may well be sham wootz, but I have seen exampes with twist core pattern welded as well.

[ASPaulding]

Thank you all for your feedback. The only question I have is about the grip material? And on the scabbord, what are the little springs and what is the purpose? Thanks

[werecow]

The "springs" are a typical Ottoman scabbard stitch. From SBG forum:

That scabbard stitching thing: It used to be called ,, Türkenleiter '' in old German language texts.
Think I found the term on an Austrian site dealing with old Austrian texts.
Which makes sense as they had to deal with Ottoman Turks quite a lot.
The term was explained as: Turkish Ladder, referring to a ladder to Heaven (or Hell, depending on where one stands in a conflict),
The spokes of said ladder are the stitches, guiding the souls of fallen Turks to the ,,Other Side''.
It is not known (I think at this point) where the term originated, on the Christian side or the Turkish.
It can be seen on many a French (private order) scabbard dating from after the Napoleonic adventure in Egypt, but also here and there on German and British scabbards from that period and later. Never cought on as a wide spread fashion though, more like an extra.

and

So according to Osman, who also asked a historian friend of his because he wanted to be sure about a couple things (the names of the symbols as well in the koftgiri) the Ottomans had no specific name for the style, but it was not adopted until the 1790's and only continued until the early 19th century and was a quite rare style reserved for the highest quality scabbards. Interesting that the French and Germans would adopt it in a limited fashion, Ottoman fashion seemed to have a huge effect on the West whenever encountered, I'm sure it was considered exotic.

[ASPaulding]

Wow, what great information. Thank you

[ASPaulding]

My friend that speaks Arabic translated a few words on mine. He made out three names. Adam, Joseph and Malek.

[werecow]

Originally Posted by ASPaulding

My friend that speaks Arabic translated a few words on mine. He made out three names. Adam, Joseph and Malek.

Just to add, an Iranian friend of mine says:

It's difficult to recognize any word in this one, except for the one on the left hand side which I think is Allah (God)

based on the attached image.