Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12th October 2022, 12:48 AM   #1
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,194
Default

Point taken Teo, as noted the forms themselves do not have rigid geographic boundaries, but indeed the decorative motif and in degree certain nuances in the element designs can distinguish certain regions, as you have shown.

Thank you for the kind words on my example. These markings do seem German but do not match exactly with known examples of makers in the compendiums. It has been suggested many times that German shops may have been producing 'blanks' in blades which were then stamped with interpretations of these marks at entrepots receiving them.

I think the diffusion of this general hilt form has been a well traveled conundrum for a very long time, that will be some thread!
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th October 2022, 05:53 AM   #2
TVV
Member
 
TVV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 1,660
Default

Here are some pictures of people wearing Zanzibar nimchas that we can look at, taken straight from the period photos thread.

The first one is a eunuch in Zanzibar, taken in 1931 - a little late, but interesting to see him wear a type III nimcha.

The second one is of a Swahili man called Bwana Heri and his sons. Since it has a label in German, we know it was taken somewhere in Tanganyika between 1885 and WWI. He has a type III nimcha and an Omani dagger, while his sons have no swords and just the newer, Saidi daggers.

The last one is of Sultan Said Ali ben Said Omar of Anjouan Island in the Comoros. He ruled at the end of the 19th century, over all the Comoros just as the French colonized and annexed the islands. While he has a shamshir of the Omani type, the person seated to his left as well as the two men seated to his right wear nimchas. Two of them are type III, while the gentleman seated on the far right has a type I (we can clearly see the ring). While the Comoros were never formally part of the Omani Empire, the men wear Omani Saidi daggers, showing the strong Oman influence on dress and weapons. What are these men and how are they related to the Sultan I do not know - maybe senior bodyguards or some officials.

In Hales the nimchas are worn by the grand vizier's bodyguards. Overall, it would appear that these swords were either worn by the bodyguards of very important people or by older, more senior individuals. All the 4 pictures we have (I am counting the photograph in Hales on p. 237) are taken in Africa, one in Zanzibar, one somewhere in Tanganyika along the coast and 2 in the Comoros. None in Oman itself, so I am not even sure if this sword type was popular in Oman at all.

Teo
Attached Images
   
TVV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th October 2022, 06:48 PM   #3
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,194
Default

These are great images Teo!!!
The Comoros, the old pirate hangout next to Madagascar in earlier times of Captain Kidd.

With the notable 'hand nock' in the grips of these, the influences went to Spanish colonial swords, these from 18th c. into 19th in Caribbean and South Central America..the influence probably from Spanish colonies in Morocco.
Attached Images
      
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th October 2022, 04:08 PM   #4
Nihl
Member
 
Nihl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 90
Default

I’m late in replying to another thread, but I feel I must celebrate the connections you’ve shown here with your images Jim! This is all out of my area of expertise, so I don’t know if this evolution of hilts from karabela to nimcha to colonial sword is actually well known, but it’s the first time I’m hearing of it, and I love it! I always found the “finger hook” at the end of nimchas and so-called berber sabers to be rather peculiar, but I never thought of connecting the two, nor that the former could be an evolution of the more subtle protrusion found on karabela pommels. In general I believe most sabers have this kind of “pommel hook” to catch the hand and prevent it from slipping off while the sword is being swung, and as such I always saw it as being a ubiquitous design feature that just kind of exists without external influences. This is the first time I’ve seen any real connection between grips of different swords, however, so hats off to you Jim (or whoever might have first seen this connection)!
Nihl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th October 2022, 05:32 PM   #5
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,194
Default

Thank you very much Nihl! I am certain I am by far not the first to notice this peculiar similarity, which is of course a feature which has numerous other connections. In this case, it is something that became notably apparent to me in my research on Spanish colonial swords, a not particularly well traveled road.

Often we can find certain features in ethnographic weapons which extend to key European influences, especially those of the Italian city states, whose trade influenced the local weaponry in regions they frequented. The nimsha (a term loosely used to describe various Arab sabers but typically regarding short bladed cutlass types) was widely distributed though the Mediterranean, via the Italian conduit.

It is interesting to look into North African edged weapons, particularly in the Maghreb, where such influences prevail, for example the 'peacock' type lunette on many koummya daggers, which are actually a form of khanjhar (Pant, 1980). These pommels are believed to derive from the Italian 'cinqueda', a connection which is of course deemed plausible through visible comparison, cannot be empirically proven, but the idea is compelling.

The Moroccan dagger, janwi, is termed so from the many edged weapons entering these regions from Genoa in that trade. I am sure there are other examples of Italian influences that can be described beyond the scope here.
These strong influences were the very reason I bought the important volume (expensive even back when I got it) "Armi Bianchi Italienne" by Boccia & Coelho. While in Italian, the amazing photos and silhouette plates of general forms reveals almost astounding comparisons with more ethnographic edged weapon forms than can be imagined. It is I think essential.

Best regards
Jim
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd June 2023, 07:27 AM   #6
TVV
Member
 
TVV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 1,660
Default

One of the mysteries of the Omani/East African nimchas is the general lack of markings. I have seen a few with marks, but they are still less than 10% of the total I have seen. On top of that, almost always the rare marks you find on them are not European or in imitation of European marks.

This is even more puzzling when compared to the other 19th century swords that were used alongside the nimchas - the kattaras and the guardless, conical hilt saifs. These other swords are almost always extensively marked and the marks tend to be European or copies thereof.

It appears that either the blades were kept unmarked or any marks were ground out on purpose. Why, I have no idea. Interestingly, this seems to be true of only Oman, Zanzibar and the Comoros, because the Yemeni versions tend to have all kinds of imported blades with their markings.
TVV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th January 2024, 09:21 PM   #7
TVV
Member
 
TVV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 1,660
Default

I was browsing Google images today and came across a very interesting sword, which only deepens the mystery of nimcha hilts for me. It was sold at a Bonham's auction in 2015, and described as 19th century South Indian sword. I believe it is earlier than that, and the hilt and guard have many interesting features.

Obviously, the lion pommel and the grip decorations are beautiful and perhaps correctly attributed to India, as they are unlike anything found either in Oman/Zanzibar or the Maghreb. Members with better knowledge of Indian arms may be able to identify the patterns and confirm where they are from.

But the guard is similar to BOTH Zanzibari and Maghrebi nimchas. Take a look at the D-ring - it has a four-petal flower in the center. This is pretty much the same flower from which the flowers on Zanzibari rings are derived, illustrated with a picture of one of mine.

But then look at the quillons - their ends are shaped as multi-faceted flower buds. This is typical of early Algerian nimchas, like one I have with a brass guard.

The blade is a broadsword blade with a single short fuller and no markings. Interestingly, Zanzibari blades are almost always unmarked, especially the straight ones.

So, what to make of this sword? If the lion pommel and grip are Indian, it would be closer geographically to the Zanzibari and East African nimchas. But it also exhibits Algerian guard traits, so could it be derived from some old ancestor of both of these, brough by the Ottomans to the Indian Ocean?
Attached Images
    
TVV is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.