Can Anyone Help ID this Keris ?

BluErf · 28th January 2005, 11:35 PM

Hi Frederico, when you say wider-spaced luks, do you mean the luks are 'longer'? But in this kris, the first 4 luks are compressed into the lower half of the blade, and they look pretty 'cramped'. Or do you mean the 5th luk, which is stretched out?

Just clarifying. Thanks.

Federico · 28th January 2005, 11:53 PM

Hello BluErf...because I am blanking on a good way to explain it, compare the spacing of the luks of Boswego's kris to the kris in these pictures. Particularly the top kris is the newest. As you can see, as time progresses the compression of luk spacing becomes much tighter, with some more modern kris, particularly after 1900 having extreme numbers of tightly spaced luks.

Rick · 29th January 2005, 12:15 AM

As opposed to :

BluErf · 29th January 2005, 12:57 AM

Ah, a few pictures say a few thousand words.

Thanks Fredrico and Rick.

But just an observation -- as the number of luks increases, the wavelength would have to decrease. It must, or the blade will have to lengthen, which is not always practical. So are we also talking about newer blades having more luks?

In keris world, there is this belief that the more number of luks a keris has, the more powerful or exalted it is. I read somewhere about this warrior 'threatening' asked another person if he should unsheath his keris which has 47 luks -- which would lead to bloodshed. (How the empu manage to squeeze that many luks into a 13-15 inch blade is a complete mystery to me).

So as time goes by, "luk inflation" takes place as people want krises with more and more luks. That may contribute to the reduction in spacing between the luks, maybe? Just thinking...

Btw, in keris world, there is also this phenomena of "luk inflation", and not only that, the amplitude of luk increases. i.e. the older pieces have more gentle undulating luks, the newer ones have more roundish, exaggerated luks. Where the luks are many (>17), the luks almost look triangle-lish.

Rick · 29th January 2005, 01:15 AM

Back to the piece at hand .
I'm a little suspicious about these seemingly archaic blades that have such a shallow and rudimentary sogokan , pecetan and janur ( using Frey's Indo terms ) .

Compare the pictures hosted by Andrew with the other archaic Kris posted by myself .

I've always wondered about this .

Boswego · 29th January 2005, 01:17 AM

Thanks for all the great knowledge and feedback.So from what I gather this is a Phillipine Moro Kris -poss a pre-19th Cent piece from the Marano Tribe/Province. What,generally,were these types of shortswords used for,and could I possibly locate a correct scabbard for it ?
(I'm a woodworker,and w/the correct native materials could fabricate one providing I had accurate ethnographic photos/measurements).

Andrew · 29th January 2005, 01:57 AM

Boswego, the Moro kris is a fighting weapon.

Could someone post up some scabbard pix for us to look at?

nechesh · 29th January 2005, 04:27 AM

Rick! How many times do i have to warn you not to post that gorgeous kris anymore!

drool, drool,drool, drool

28th January 2005, 11:53 PM	#2
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	Hello BluErf...because I am blanking on a good way to explain it, compare the spacing of the luks of Boswego's kris to the kris in these pictures. Particularly the top kris is the newest. As you can see, as time progresses the compression of luk spacing becomes much tighter, with some more modern kris, particularly after 1900 having extreme numbers of tightly spaced luks. Attached Images

28th January 2005, 11:35 PM	#1
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hi Frederico, when you say wider-spaced luks, do you mean the luks are 'longer'? But in this kris, the first 4 luks are compressed into the lower half of the blade, and they look pretty 'cramped'. Or do you mean the 5th luk, which is stretched out? Just clarifying. Thanks.

29th January 2005, 12:15 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	As opposed to :

29th January 2005, 12:57 AM	#4
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Ah, a few pictures say a few thousand words. Thanks Fredrico and Rick. But just an observation -- as the number of luks increases, the wavelength would have to decrease. It must, or the blade will have to lengthen, which is not always practical. So are we also talking about newer blades having more luks? In keris world, there is this belief that the more number of luks a keris has, the more powerful or exalted it is. I read somewhere about this warrior 'threatening' asked another person if he should unsheath his keris which has 47 luks -- which would lead to bloodshed. (How the empu manage to squeeze that many luks into a 13-15 inch blade is a complete mystery to me). So as time goes by, "luk inflation" takes place as people want krises with more and more luks. That may contribute to the reduction in spacing between the luks, maybe? Just thinking... Btw, in keris world, there is also this phenomena of "luk inflation", and not only that, the amplitude of luk increases. i.e. the older pieces have more gentle undulating luks, the newer ones have more roundish, exaggerated luks. Where the luks are many (>17), the luks almost look triangle-lish.

29th January 2005, 01:15 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Back to the piece at hand . I'm a little suspicious about these seemingly archaic blades that have such a shallow and rudimentary sogokan , pecetan and janur ( using Frey's Indo terms ) . Compare the pictures hosted by Andrew with the other archaic Kris posted by myself . I've always wondered about this .

29th January 2005, 01:17 AM	#6
Boswego Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 23	Thanks for all the great knowledge and feedback.So from what I gather this is a Phillipine Moro Kris -poss a pre-19th Cent piece from the Marano Tribe/Province. What,generally,were these types of shortswords used for,and could I possibly locate a correct scabbard for it ? (I'm a woodworker,and w/the correct native materials could fabricate one providing I had accurate ethnographic photos/measurements).

29th January 2005, 01:57 AM	#7
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Boswego, the Moro kris is a fighting weapon. Could someone post up some scabbard pix for us to look at?

29th January 2005, 04:27 AM	#8
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Rick! How many times do i have to warn you not to post that gorgeous kris anymore! drool, drool,drool, drool