New Kilij: need help

[S.Al-Anizi]

This one certainly looks old, but with newer elements such as the thing that fixes the rings to the scabbard, is clearly newer than the other brass fittings. The reason I say this is because as of late, antiques dealers in damascus are increasingly meddling with any old piece they obtain, trying to restore it, and ending with a completely new scabbard or hilt and destroying the older valuable one. As for the arrangement of the rings, again, this is not an arabian arrangement, this is a typical arab arrangement from your own collection:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=frog

[katana]

Ariel, if you want to obtain musical notes from tapping metal... may I suggest bells

As you know I have no knowledge of these types of swords, but I do like it....not so keen on the scabbard though

[Tim Simmons]

It all depends on what S.Al-Anizi means by recent. Some people would call the late 19th century recent. I would say judging by the remains of gilding on the scabbard, it is from around the turn of the 19th century. The blade is probably a lot earlier. To me the blade and handle look made to a higher standard but the scabbard has definitely been made for this sword. I know nothing of these really

[S.Al-Anizi]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

It all depends on what S.Al-Anizi means by recent. Some people would call the late 19th century recent. I would say judging by the remains of gilding on the scabbard, it is from around the turn of the 19th century. The blade is probably a lot earlier. To me the blade and handle look made to a higher standard but the scabbard has definitely been made for this sword. I know nothing of these really

By recent, I actually meant late 20th century, regarding the brass fittings on the scabbard, however, I cant, and no one can, be sure of their date, they could be very old. Im not assuring anything here, most of this is speculation.

The reason I say this is because Ive seen, and owned a couple of newly made syrian kilijs with the same kind of thin brasswork, locally called 'sabk', with the same discolouration and oxidisation as that on Ariels sword scabbard. It could be however, that this is a continuation of a tradition. The blade and hilt however, seem to be much older, and of excellent quality.

[ariel]

The small, rhomboid fittings are unquestionaby new: different color, lower quality etc.
But the large ones are old; this is supported by the wood of the scabbard: very old, very dry, very used.Tough to imagine that the supposed renovation involved brass fittings only, with quite a lot of work and the need to adjust it for the existing dimensions of the wood inserts of the scabbard, when making an entirely new scabbard was so much easier: fittings first, wood later.

[Yannis]

Originally Posted by katana

Ariel, if you want to obtain musical notes from tapping metal... may I suggest bells

Well, talking about baldrics, there is an anecdote. During the Greek revolution against Ottoman rule (1821-1829) the fashion about hanging the kilij had change, from the belt to the shoulder (with baldric). As it happens in all fashions the older rebels were more conservative and used the belt. In a meeting they were talking about swords and an old man, to tease a younger that was very proud about his blade, he said:
“Why do you carry this bell around?”

So, Ariel, you are not the first

Seriously now, I envy this sword

[ariel]

This one just ended.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1
Remarkably similar to mine. The seller sent me pics: same materials, similar ornaments and same suspension system.

[Valjhun]

Well, I thik thoose are syrian, just a guess thou. Mr. Yarom sold 4/5 of that type, take a look at his site, maybe he has a better idea of provenience.

[Rick]

Ariel , I think that cloth may be what's left of the original embossed leather . Often that material was made from very thin leather bonded to a stiffer cloth backing to help the embossing keep its shape .