Strange indian hanger with (pseudo?) genoese marks

[Bob A]

Old blade, repurposed silver work on scabbard, odd and seemingly unused hilt, I don't see it as representative of any particular culture, rather an assemblage possibly completed in India for an aficionado of the eclectic.

I'm probably wrong, of course. Kinda pretty, for all that; certainly eye-catching.

[Jim McDougall]

European artisans were copying 'oriental' styling in sword mountings in the 18th century, especially with dark background and silver themes from the orient (shakudo and Tonquinese hilted small swords). I have seen Chinese and other forms produced in European weapon forms. The 'pandour' units inspired auxiliary and specialized units with this type theme using 'exotic' weapons and fashions in imitation of these in European armies into early 1800s. Napoleon was particularly fond of these type units, and his Zouave units even influenced the American military in the Civil War,

The British often favored 'oriental' (which included India and Middle East in that parlance) styles in their officers swords. There are many examples of 'foreign' forms and styling in these typically 'one off' specially commissioned weapons.

With this clearly German or Austrian style blade I still think it is an unusual example for an officer in a flamboyant style in the units described. This is most unusual however as this type of 'creation' is typically more expected with cavalry sabers, or officers swords with full length blades.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Bob A

Old blade, repurposed silver work on scabbard, odd and seemingly unused hilt, I don't see it as representative of any particular culture, rather an assemblage possibly completed in India for an aficionado of the eclectic.

I'm probably wrong, of course. Kinda pretty, for all that; certainly eye-catching.

Birds don't sing upside down, and the shield motif on the other side of the chape is also upside down.
Makes no sense so I'll vote for a 'married' piece with Indian made blade.

[Jim McDougall]

It has always been my understanding that a sword is viewed being held upright, not downward as when worn. However looking at the vegetal pattern on the throat it does seem the leaves are pointing upward so would be inverted if sword viewed upright. This type of blade is not as far as I have known been produced in India, even in the modern reproduction market. It is known that the 'sickle' mark often (even almost typically) occurs on the blades of North Indian sabers known as paluoar and Afghan associated, but these are not of the same character as this.

The thistle as seen in the floral pierced pattern on the chape is of course typically regarded as Scottish. The black background against silver is of course mindful of the bidri metal work in India, so bring drawn to that association seems well placed. I will say that there was a degree of Scottish presence in India during the Raj in the 18th c. so there is some commemorative potential in some degree, but this seemingly Austrian blade is it seems misplaced in that notion.

[Richard G]

I'm not sure I fully agree with you here, Jim.
Sword blades would normally be read with the point held high, but not necessarily other parts of a sword. The British 1803 Infantry sabre, for example, had a cypher on the knuckle guard that is upside down if the sword point is held aloft. Also, I can't think of any situation when a scabbard would be held with the chape aloft, so it makes sense for decoration to be orientated to be viewed with the chape down.
Best wishes
Richard

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Richard G

I'm not sure I fully agree with you here, Jim.
Sword blades would normally be read with the point held high, but not necessarily other parts of a sword. The British 1803 Infantry sabre, for example, had a cypher on the knuckle guard that is upside down if the sword point is held aloft. Also, I can't think of any situation when a scabbard would be held with the chape aloft, so it makes sense for decoration to be orientated to be viewed with the chape down.
Best wishes
Richard

I was thinking that, as I saw the throat oriented different than the chape as the leaves would be pointed downward on the throat as held upright. It is confusing as many discussions over the years on blade decoration claimed held upright was proper to read inscriptions, motif.....but not sure that was entirely consistent. Still I am not sure the orientation of the scabbard motif would be held as a determining factor. Interesting in discussion though!
Well made point on the 1803.,

[Gonzoadler]

I want to say that this is an interesting discussion here. I made some additional pichtures of the silver parts, maybe they can help.

[Tim Simmons]

The decoration looks like Indian version of Art Nouveau . Would not be surprised if it was a hunting hanger for a British officer or high ranking bod of some kind.

[David R]

Originally Posted by Rick

Birds don't sing upside down, and the shield motif on the other side of the chape is also upside down.
Makes no sense so I'll vote for a 'married' piece with Indian made blade.

My thought as well.

[Richard G]

The scabbard fittings appear to be orientated so as to be viewed with the chape up, apart from one side of the locket, which is the 'right' way up.
I wonder if it is a piece put together by a silversmith, intent on his silversmithing, rather than by a sword or knife cutler, who would probably have a more instinctive feel for the orientation of fittings.
Best wishes
Richard

[Tim Simmons]

I would think this is not made by one person. I still feel the decoration is a third hand or more working to the art nouveau styles that were influencing Indian crafts people. You can find stuff on this style influence on city art schools of the time. Not all work would be carried out in the sophisticated centres of production.

[Tim Simmons]

Colonial influence on Indian art. Just to show it was well established.
https://www.livehistoryindia.com/sto...colonial-india

[kronckew]

The bird on the chape is also perched as if the chape were pointing up. And the flowers on the throat piece also are growing towards the tip.


I suspect they were cast with the lost wax method by a jeweller who had no knowledge of how weapons should be oriented, and who found it easier to carve the wax mould bits with the flat base on his table, and for orienting when he set the wax bits in the container for making the proper plaster mould, so they didn't fall over as the mould cured. Carving a bird & flowers upside down is a feat most of us would not accomplish. Try writing & drawing backwards like Leonardo. ��



Any bird watchers here that may recognize the bird & it's origin?


In any case, the blade/grip may originally had a different scabbard or sheath and and the present one is an 'upgrade' for a rising status owner. Maybe the hand grip is too. It has a rather worm-like form. Overall the scabbard does look rather nepali kothimora, like my khukuri (below)


I have an 3,000 yr. old Egyptian bronze penetrative age axe whose haft has been replaced three times and the axe head twice.