Use of the Sword by American Indian Tribes

[David]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

By the late 18th century, the Europeans were aware of their having metal weapons, but as far as known all metalwork was 'cold worked'. Most smaller tools and knives were made from individual sections or pieces of metal termed 'toes', which were eagerly sought in trade.
The meteoric weapons which were apparently from an uncertain number of sources of meteoric iron, were cold worked by shaping and hammering with rocks it seems. The use of meteoric iron was well known among the Inuit and other aboriginal peoples.

Though it is clear that examples of cold worked meteorite do exist i believe it is equally clear that many of these Tlingit daggers that are dated to the mid and late 18th century are indeed indigenously FORGED weapons. Again, where how they developed these forging kills remains unknown, but there are daggers that were "collected" in the late 18th century by Europeans that obviously were not European forgings. By the 19th century Tlingit forging skills increased greatly, producing large and elaborately fullered daggers. So while there may not be much evidence of indigenous smelting i believe there is plenty of evidence of indigenous forging.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by David

Though it is clear that examples of cold worked meteorite do exist i believe it is equally clear that many of these Tlingit daggers that are dated to the mid and late 18th century are indeed indigenously FORGED weapons. Again, where how they developed these forging kills remains unknown, but there are daggers that were "collected" in the late 18th century by Europeans that obviously were not European forgings. By the 19th century Tlingit forging skills increased greatly, producing large and elaborately fullered daggers. So while there may not be much evidence of indigenous smelting i believe there is plenty of evidence of indigenous forging.

Thank you David.
My knowledge of metallurgy is pretty shallow, so it in interesting with this to learn more. I know that the use of meteorite iron is a well known attribute in your field of study, the keris, so I am wondering, was this meteorite metal used wholly, or alloyed with other metals in forging?
It does not seem that cold forging would achieve the kind of structure that would allow channeling/fullering etc.

I am inclined to agree with what you are saying on these Tlingit knives, the complexity of the channeling and the shapes of the blades seem to exceed any potential of fabrication with scrap or trade item repurposing. It does not seem that 'cold work' would accomplish this level of detail.

While as you say there is no evidence of smelting in these regions, after more reading on the indiginous peoples across the Bering did seem to have forging skills as noted from Japanese and Chinese influences. With the amount of trade and contact throughout these tribal groups it would be entirely reasonable for them to have at least some degree of absorbing of these skills and from cold working to actual forging is not that great a leap.

The question then would be from where was the iron obtained, and I wonder if there might have been some degree of trade ingots brought in.
The structure of these Tlingit knives is remarkable, and it would be great to examine them more thoroughly.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by David

Though it is clear that examples of cold worked meteorite do exist i believe it is equally clear that many of these Tlingit daggers that are dated to the mid and late 18th century are indeed indigenously FORGED weapons. Again, where how they developed these forging kills remains unknown, but there are daggers that were "collected" in the late 18th century by Europeans that obviously were not European forgings. By the 19th century Tlingit forging skills increased greatly, producing large and elaborately fullered daggers. So while there may not be much evidence of indigenous smelting i believe there is plenty of evidence of indigenous forging.

Thank you Fernando......not really a digression but key perspective by analogy of how native peoples often would adopt outside influences into their own culture, and often revere them as seen here.
It seems well known that the African tribal groups typically had varying levels of metal working skills, but West Africa seems to have used more of the sift, yellow metals. However there were certainly smiths fully capable of working iron, and interesting to see how they carefully duplicated these Portuguese swords and were seen as holding resounding power.

The swordsmanship of the Portuguese explorers was probably seen as their ability to harness the power and magic of the sword. This is a common perception with native peoples as weapons foreign to them were seen in the sense of magic, much as imbued in their own weapons. In the cases of swords I think this was recognized as a formidable force, and only the most powerful in a native tribe could hold such a weapon. In these cases I think that these were a kind of 'bearing' weapon as often seen in tribal cultures in Africa in rituals, and various ceremonies or events.

With the American Indian tribes, it was a dual reaction. While the 'long knives' were seen representing the power of the warrior in cases of weapons captured from the Blue Coats, they were often seen as imbued with similar kinds of power as used by chiefs. In these instances the sword held a kind of metaphysical power that symbolized that of the chief. This was for example as in the case of a visitor to the tribe who was to be protected, the chiefs sword was placed near the entrance, in effect....a warning, anyone who tries to breach this sanctity will face the wrath of the chief (as his sword declares)..

[fernando]

Drawings of remnants of personalities buried in tombs #4, #5 and #12 with their swords, in Kindoki, Mbanza Nsundi, Low Congo,
And a portrait of Mfutila, King of the Congo Kingdom, who succeeded his father in 1892.


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