Foreign Legion in the Sahara

[CutlassCollector]

Originally Posted by kronckew

Much more interesting as a FFL arm. Boarding axes are a lot more blasé.

That's a very hefty looking axe and looks almost like a descendant of the big Napoleonic sapper axes used for fortifications.

I also remember those boyhood films - I may even have read the book!
So great thread, Jim, I don't recall covering the Legion's weapons before and I hope some get posted that can be attributed specifically to the Legion. Do we know if they had their own designated marks?

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by CutlassCollector

That's a very hefty looking axe and looks almost like a descendant of the big Napoleonic sapper axes used for fortifications.

I also remember those boyhood films - I may even have read the book!
So great thread, Jim, I don't recall covering the Legion's weapons before and I hope some get posted that can be attributed specifically to the Legion. Do we know if they had their own designated marks?

Thanks CC! If I recall as a kid, our foreign legion 'uniform' was mostly a ball cap with a towel under it to cover our necks
I really dont know if the Legion had specific unit markings for arms, but presume they did, the flaming grenade seems to have been a primary emblem or badge.
As noted, we can guess by the weapon types (i.e.Chassepot 'needle gun') so 'of the type', but rest remains to be seen.
I think most of the Chasspot and Gras rifles and bayonets fall within the period of the discussion just prior to turn of the century.

Well noted on the axe, and these probably were directly in line with those sappers axes.

[Jim McDougall]

I just posted a concurrent thread on Ethnographic recalling that over the years a number of Saharan weapons have turned up with French military blades. I am hoping to find examples of these which might have markings perhaps attributed to French Foreign Legion.
In reviewing old threads over there, I found one Moroccan dagger (genoui) which had a bayonet blade apparently from a Mannlicher-Berthier 1892, which we did not determine of FFL use, but that was unresolved.
It seems most of the French occupation and campaigns were in Algeria with some in Moroccan regions from 1831 onward through 19th c.

[fernando]

The 1832 Talabot glaive/sabre, which have equiped the FFL. As learnt from different sources.


.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by fernando

The 1832 Talabot glaive/sabre, which have equiped the FFL. As learnt from different sources.


.

That is fantastic Fernando, thank you!
It seems like these are thebFrench swords they called 'cabbage choppers' . I had no idea these would be FFL weapons. While these swords which were basically infantry swords I believe, they were great for utility use such as constructing breastworks etc. Clearly not much use in the sands of the Sahara, but in the early years much of the campaign activity was in Algerian regions where terrain had notable vegetation etc.

Blade looks well marked, but nothing to the FFL it appears, but the Talabot markings are notable.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

...It seems like these are thebFrench swords they called 'cabbage choppers' ...

Yes indeed.

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

...I had no idea these would be FFL weapons...

Also for FFL forces; not exclusive.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Thanks CC! If I recall as a kid, our foreign legion 'uniform' was mostly a ball cap with a towel under it to cover our necks
...

I remember buying a summer hat with a neck flap, and my first reaction wearing it was to hum Le Boudin*.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwM3oYi5ltQ


...And they still carry axes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yASlGCLkBSw




*- I was about 40


-

[fernando]

What took you so long, Wayne ?

[Jim McDougall]

It has long been an affinity of mine to find often obscure topics in arms history and try to discover more on these areas, and this, with the Foreign Legion (Regiment Etranger) of course seemed a good one.

As has been seen, for some of us, the stories of the Foreign Legion we were exposed to in our younger years are long remembered, just as would be the case with young boys yearning for adventure. Ironically in the movie "Beau Geste" which I unfortunately used anecdotally here, the opening scenes had to do with young boys dreaming of adventure, which of course brought in the "Legion'.
It would be hard to look into this topic without these elements brought to the fore.

In seeking more information as I had hoped for here, I have gone into a number of references and it seems there is a remarkable lack of information on the Foreign Legion in the 19th century, particularly in North Africa. That was primarily the reason for the use of the movie in opening, as this has been virtually the only context generally remembered as noted in the discussion.

I finally found a source which might explain this situation, from "French Foreign Legion" (Martin Windrow, 1971,p.3) ;
"...it is arguable that no body of fighting men in the whole history of European arms has been so inundated with ill informed publicity as the French Foreign Legion. For more than a century this famous corps has been alternately libelled and romanticized by a steady stream of sentimental fiction, ill founded horror stories in the popular press, indignant newspaper leaders, and catch penny film and television scripts. Some of the most persistent myths are still in wide currency today".

This is an intriguing opening for a history of a famed military group, and which explains here that it was known more for being notorious than elite it seems.
This seems much more the case for the years of the 19th century, which of course is the period for which I sought information here.

In further explaining the romanticizing of the Legion, this reference in describing Algeria (the region of interest noted 1867-82 the period setting for the "Beau Geste" novel) says,
"...the years 1867-75 were unhappy for the officers and men of the Regiment Etranger. Minor tax gathering sorties alternated with road building and deathly monotonous garrison duty in tiny posts in the Sahara. It was in conditions such as these that the abuses sprang up of which novelists have made so much".

While once again having to strain the patience of the parameters of the forum ajenda by using the "Beau Geste' fiction in analogy, it appears this period is indeed that intended in the original novel, despite its 1926 publishing.
Here also, we can see the distortion of the perception of the Legion which might account in degree for the lack of specific attention in the body of published material on French arms history as pertains to these regions and times.

What I have been able to find however suggests that the Chasspot rifles and later the Gras rifles were primary weapons used by the Legion in these areas and times.
The rest is as they say, history, and as this topic seems at a terminus here, I'd like to thank you guys for the entries and participation.

[kronckew]

Jim, The most famous Day in the history of the FFL is Camerone Day, 30 APRIL, which remembers the battle in Mexico on that day in 1863. Wiki tells the tale better than I can. It is the heart and soul of the Legion, and should be the stating point for your research into the FFL in the Americas.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Camar%C3%B3n

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by kronckew

Jim, The most famous Day in the history of the FFL is Camerone Day, 30 APRIL, which remembers the battle in Mexico on that day in 1863. Wiki tells the tale better than I can. It is the heart and soul of the Legion, and should be the stating point for your research into the FFL in the Americas.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Camar%C3%B3n

Thank you so much Wayne! well noted, and as it seems I am always studying Spanish Colonial subjects and history of Mexico, thats a perfect area to continue.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... While once again having to strain the patience of the parameters of the forum ajenda by using the "Beau Geste' fiction in analogy, it appears this period is indeed that intended in the original novel, despite its 1926 publishing...

Concerning dates, P.C. Wren published the novel in 1924 (1925 in USA) and the movie came to the screens in 1939, featuring a period of the Legion quoted as pre-1914.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by fernando

Concerning dates, P.C. Wren published the novel in 1924 (1925 in USA) and the movie came to the screens in 1939, featuring a period of the Legion quoted as pre-1914.

Actually that is correct, though the copy I have of the novel is published by Grosset & Dunlap and dated 1926, and seen as a first edition. It would seem this was published promotionally as it specifies the Paramount pictures movie starring Ronald Coleman in that year, movie stills are throughout the book.
The 1939 movie starring Gary Cooper was a remake.

The phrase pre WWI is used in describing the period set for the story as is often the case with historical fiction to allow certain latitude in the plot and developments. It does seem understandable as specific dates would be of course confining and subject to too much critical scrutiny. As it is, the circumstances and descriptions in the text seem to allude to the period I had mentioned in Algeria in the 1870s-80s and thus the demeanor of the Legion that was popularly held at the time of the novel, as also described.

On p.20 of the novel, "..,.lying on his back, his sightless eyes out-staring the sun-lay the commandant, and through his heart, a BAYONET, one of our long, thin, French sword bayonets with its single curved hilt".
This seems a perfect description for the Gras M1874 bayonet which was used from that date until about 1886.

The mention of automobiles in the novel further illustrates the amalgamation of settings and period combined in the story.

[Hotspur]

My second empire fantastique sword suited for French Colonial use. The cutler was Georges Leon of Paris.

Cheers
GC

[rickystl]

Interesting Thread to say the least. Thanks Jim for starting.

Rick: That MAS revolver looks to be in great condition. Glad you found a source for ammo. Fun stuff.

We must be close to the same age. I too remember Captain Gallant on Saturday mornings. LOL

Beau Geste: I need to watch this movie again. Been many years.

Rick

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by rickystl

Interesting Thread to say the least. Thanks Jim for starting.

Rick: That MAS revolver looks to be in great condition. Glad you found a source for ammo. Fun stuff.

We must be close to the same age. I too remember Captain Gallant on Saturday mornings. LOL

Beau Geste: I need to watch this movie again. Been many years.

Rick

Hey Rick, thank you for coming in! and I had hoped this would be a topic of interest........looks like another Captain Gallant fan! Its fun remembering those good old days and what adventure with these films and series. The opening of "Beau Geste" pretty much says it as it portrays the acting out adventurous history......what led to my hopeless obsession with arms collecting and studying their history along with the people who used them.
We're all it seems about the same age, but still kids at heart!