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#1 |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 411
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Yep, anyone who consciously employs a publicly viewed symbol does so to establish or enhance their personal or social identity. Dress, body art, brand of car, type of entertainment, sword type and marks are attempting to send a message. Unfortunately, at this juncture we (ignorant of the relevant cultural context) are still trying to figure out Who was trying to say What to Whom.
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#2 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,363
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#3 |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,194
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Again, I very much agree with you Ed. We in general do not have a significant grasp of the cultural demeanor, character or beliefs of these people. This is further complicated by the fact that while these Saharan groups are in general Berber, the texture of the clan or tribal subgroups vary with their own idiosyncracies .
Clearly with that being the case, as with any attempt to interpret any sort of arcane thinking linked to symbolic representation without recorded explanations by those using them cannot be irrefutably accurate. However, it does seem possible to plausibly link examples of the use of certain symbols through consistencies in context and application. For example, with the much more familiar 'dukari' or crescent moons widely known on many takouba blades (in degree on Sudanese as well in the diffusion noted) it seems reasonably established that these are presumed to represent broadly the imbuement of 'magic' in the blade itself. While we cannot know the exact interpretation of the dynamics of this imbuing, we know that talismanic value is extensively represented by symbolic use of figures and devices in the Berber sphere. The objective here is to hopefully collect examples of like symbols to establish any consistencies in their presence on exemplars of weapons with certain regional character or provenance otherwise available. The example of takouba I have posted here is peculiar in being 'aljuinar', that is having a saber type blade as opposed to more typical broadsword blades of takouba. It is European and likely 18th century. From notes I just found, its provenance is from Ouagadougoo in Burkina Faso where it was acquired there sometime over 30 years ago and I got it from the guy who originally acquired it some 20 years ago. While I deemed the curious mark at the center of the blade to be of 'horseshoe' character, it is more clearly an arc with dots at each end, rather similar to the 'sickle' marks of dual arcs (usually dentated) of 'Genoa' and which have three dots at each end. I have seen takouba with this 'Genoan' marking approximated with paired arcs but plain, no dentation, and with single dot at each end. Could the mark on my sword simply be 'reduced' from that application? as we have agreed, we cannot possibly know, but the possibility is clearly there. We have seen the dukari (paired moons) used consistently in virtually the same application on takouba blades. I have seen suggestions that certain symbolism in folk religions etc. regards 'duality' , which of course is something I cannot adequately discuss here. With that, the concept seems reasonably presumed with the moons. So then, would the dentated arcs of the so called sickle marks of Genoa be seen in the same light, representing duality in some sense. Might the dentation on the arcs represent light from the moon? and the arcs be the surface? I have seen many examples of blades where other devices were used in the same configuration and placement of the crescent moons, which suggest a duality representation as noted, but with obviously different symbolic figures. Some of these were the letter P (?) but in simple arcs. Dual arrow type figures transposed to look like a W, in dual application and others. While I realize that this clearly seems a bit overthought (ya think?) , I felt that maybe if I offered more explanation of what I am trying to achieve here it might seem worthy of at least more consideration, perhaps even to the level of discussion. It seems the numerous writers who have attempted to take this course over the last century (Rodd, Lhote, Morel, Zohrer, and of course Briggs, et al) at least tried to find reasonable understanding of these markings phenomenon, and I could try as well to continue, despite being far from their stature. Last edited by Jim McDougall; 15th August 2022 at 07:02 PM. |
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#4 | |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
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#5 | |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,194
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While my initial reaction was that the mark, to me, resembled a horseshoe, It is hard to determine what the individual placing the mark intended. In reading through Gabus(1958) a marking which resembles the Greek letter omega (an arc with voluted ends) seems used widely in Tuareg context in decoration, and termed 'horseshoe'. This recalls cases where the Tuareg, seeing the cross and orb marking as used on German blades, as a drum and sticks. This seems to have been seen as representative of a chief, or in terms of authority. As Ed has noted, in Funj parlance, this mark was used to mark property, so in essence similar as representing authority or 'ownership'. In other cases, the European markings known a 'the doll' or 'fly' were seen by Tuaregs in accord, but in their parlance the fly was symbolic of a brave and skilled warrior (the leaping and evasive tactics in combat situation?). While it was tempting to think of the horseshoe in the widely held symbolism in Europe and other of 'good luck', it is unclear what the Tuareg perception of the omega like mark or this dotted arc might be.Though we of course do not know, it does seem worthy of note and consideration to possibilities. |
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#6 |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 411
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Jim,
The arc looks to me to be rinsed, perhaps an inlay rather than an indented/stamped mark. If correct to me that would place the mark into a "higher??" category of presentation and rarity. Also, do the dot go all the way through the blade & what if anything else is on the back side? Getting curiouser and curiouser. |
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#7 | |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,194
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What does rinse mean? Higher category? Curiouser and curioser ![]() ![]() Also note this sword originated in Ouagadougou. The leather wrapped hilt recalls the contiguous regions of Cameroon and Mali, especially Mali known for leather work with the Manding. With these regions of course having the availability of blades from French occupation, it heightens the use of saber type blades as found in the familiar Manding sabers. With Tuareg pommel style and the other features brought together, it begs the question whether the 'aljuinar' style takouba is more prevalent in these West African areas of the Sahara. Perhaps this marking is also somewhat indiginous to these areas as well? Wondering if such markings ever turned up on Manding blades? Pictured regular Manding saber of Mali, blade is unremarkable so unclear if trade or perhaps local? no markings. Last edited by Jim McDougall; 15th August 2022 at 07:08 PM. |
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