Can Anyone Help ID this Keris ?

Andrew · 28th January 2005, 09:38 PM

Here you go, Boswego.

This is a Moro Kris from the Phillipines. I know very, very little about these, but others here should be able to help you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boswego

Here's all I can say about this piece- 25" total length,20 1/2" blade length,5 1/4" hilt-handle length.The blade does'nt appear to be damascened,or so heavily polished all striations were obliterated...

I also wanted to know if someone out there might have a suitable scabbard for the Keris.

Federico · 28th January 2005, 10:00 PM

Maranao pre-19th century used for fighting...well...Maranao if we believe the trunk theory, has the nice Maranao bulge. Pre-19th century well again back to Bob's book, separate gangya would in the very least indicate pre 1930 (one date to feature I am dead sure about), possibly with considerable age if we consider wider spaced luks to be an older phenomena. Oh well...somedays I figure what do we really know about these things. There are alot of theories, but where is the proof. Its nice to move forward, and have lots to say about weaponry, but why is it accurate? Based on what? Nice kris by the way. I like the perabot features, the double fullering, and the overall dapur of the blade (well to steal terms from the keris guys). Very graceful piece, looks like it has a story to tell.

BluErf · 28th January 2005, 11:35 PM

Hi Frederico, when you say wider-spaced luks, do you mean the luks are 'longer'? But in this kris, the first 4 luks are compressed into the lower half of the blade, and they look pretty 'cramped'. Or do you mean the 5th luk, which is stretched out?

Just clarifying. Thanks.

Federico · 28th January 2005, 11:53 PM

Hello BluErf...because I am blanking on a good way to explain it, compare the spacing of the luks of Boswego's kris to the kris in these pictures. Particularly the top kris is the newest. As you can see, as time progresses the compression of luk spacing becomes much tighter, with some more modern kris, particularly after 1900 having extreme numbers of tightly spaced luks.

Rick · 29th January 2005, 12:15 AM

As opposed to :

BluErf · 29th January 2005, 12:57 AM

Ah, a few pictures say a few thousand words.

Thanks Fredrico and Rick.

But just an observation -- as the number of luks increases, the wavelength would have to decrease. It must, or the blade will have to lengthen, which is not always practical. So are we also talking about newer blades having more luks?

In keris world, there is this belief that the more number of luks a keris has, the more powerful or exalted it is. I read somewhere about this warrior 'threatening' asked another person if he should unsheath his keris which has 47 luks -- which would lead to bloodshed. (How the empu manage to squeeze that many luks into a 13-15 inch blade is a complete mystery to me).

So as time goes by, "luk inflation" takes place as people want krises with more and more luks. That may contribute to the reduction in spacing between the luks, maybe? Just thinking...

Btw, in keris world, there is also this phenomena of "luk inflation", and not only that, the amplitude of luk increases. i.e. the older pieces have more gentle undulating luks, the newer ones have more roundish, exaggerated luks. Where the luks are many (>17), the luks almost look triangle-lish.

Rick · 29th January 2005, 01:15 AM

Back to the piece at hand .
I'm a little suspicious about these seemingly archaic blades that have such a shallow and rudimentary sogokan , pecetan and janur ( using Frey's Indo terms ) .

Compare the pictures hosted by Andrew with the other archaic Kris posted by myself .

I've always wondered about this .

Boswego · 29th January 2005, 01:17 AM

Thanks for all the great knowledge and feedback.So from what I gather this is a Phillipine Moro Kris -poss a pre-19th Cent piece from the Marano Tribe/Province. What,generally,were these types of shortswords used for,and could I possibly locate a correct scabbard for it ?
(I'm a woodworker,and w/the correct native materials could fabricate one providing I had accurate ethnographic photos/measurements).

28th January 2005, 11:53 PM	#4
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	Hello BluErf...because I am blanking on a good way to explain it, compare the spacing of the luks of Boswego's kris to the kris in these pictures. Particularly the top kris is the newest. As you can see, as time progresses the compression of luk spacing becomes much tighter, with some more modern kris, particularly after 1900 having extreme numbers of tightly spaced luks. Attached Images

28th January 2005, 10:00 PM	#2
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	Maranao pre-19th century used for fighting...well...Maranao if we believe the trunk theory, has the nice Maranao bulge. Pre-19th century well again back to Bob's book, separate gangya would in the very least indicate pre 1930 (one date to feature I am dead sure about), possibly with considerable age if we consider wider spaced luks to be an older phenomena. Oh well...somedays I figure what do we really know about these things. There are alot of theories, but where is the proof. Its nice to move forward, and have lots to say about weaponry, but why is it accurate? Based on what? Nice kris by the way. I like the perabot features, the double fullering, and the overall dapur of the blade (well to steal terms from the keris guys). Very graceful piece, looks like it has a story to tell.

28th January 2005, 11:35 PM	#3
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hi Frederico, when you say wider-spaced luks, do you mean the luks are 'longer'? But in this kris, the first 4 luks are compressed into the lower half of the blade, and they look pretty 'cramped'. Or do you mean the 5th luk, which is stretched out? Just clarifying. Thanks.

29th January 2005, 12:15 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	As opposed to :

29th January 2005, 12:57 AM	#6
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Ah, a few pictures say a few thousand words. Thanks Fredrico and Rick. But just an observation -- as the number of luks increases, the wavelength would have to decrease. It must, or the blade will have to lengthen, which is not always practical. So are we also talking about newer blades having more luks? In keris world, there is this belief that the more number of luks a keris has, the more powerful or exalted it is. I read somewhere about this warrior 'threatening' asked another person if he should unsheath his keris which has 47 luks -- which would lead to bloodshed. (How the empu manage to squeeze that many luks into a 13-15 inch blade is a complete mystery to me). So as time goes by, "luk inflation" takes place as people want krises with more and more luks. That may contribute to the reduction in spacing between the luks, maybe? Just thinking... Btw, in keris world, there is also this phenomena of "luk inflation", and not only that, the amplitude of luk increases. i.e. the older pieces have more gentle undulating luks, the newer ones have more roundish, exaggerated luks. Where the luks are many (>17), the luks almost look triangle-lish.

29th January 2005, 01:15 AM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Back to the piece at hand . I'm a little suspicious about these seemingly archaic blades that have such a shallow and rudimentary sogokan , pecetan and janur ( using Frey's Indo terms ) . Compare the pictures hosted by Andrew with the other archaic Kris posted by myself . I've always wondered about this .

29th January 2005, 01:17 AM	#8
Boswego Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 23	Thanks for all the great knowledge and feedback.So from what I gather this is a Phillipine Moro Kris -poss a pre-19th Cent piece from the Marano Tribe/Province. What,generally,were these types of shortswords used for,and could I possibly locate a correct scabbard for it ? (I'm a woodworker,and w/the correct native materials could fabricate one providing I had accurate ethnographic photos/measurements).