5 Keris hilts

apolaki · 5th August 2022, 03:16 AM

Hi, I hope everyone is doing well! Can anyone tell me about these Keris hilts? I think they are deder from Java but more carving then I have usually seen on similar ones.

Jean · 5th August 2022, 10:55 AM

Recently made hilts in fantasy Central Javanese style....

Marcokeris · 5th August 2022, 01:20 PM

Yes! Deder from central Java...one good for patrem

Jean · 5th August 2022, 02:21 PM

Hello Marco,
Are you Raspoutine actually?

I thought he was killed during last century?

Regards

A. G. Maisey · 5th August 2022, 02:44 PM

Most are recent Jean, certainly, and the execution is not particularly good, but these are legitimate forms.

The smallish one looks as if it has a bit of age.

apolaki · 5th August 2022, 04:55 PM

Thank you all!

Is there specific names or representations of each?

To me the 2nd hilt looks like a naga?

What is the form/design called for the last 2 that are geometric?

Marcokeris · 5th August 2022, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Hello Marco,
Are you Raspoutine actually?

I thought he was killed during last century?

Regards

Marcokeris · 5th August 2022, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apolaki

Thank you all!

Is there specific names or representations of each?

To me the 2nd hilt looks like a naga?

What is the form/design called for the last 2 that are geometric?

yes !
the first it's a "putri kinurung"
the second a "naga"
3 an 4: variation of "naradakanda"

David · 6th August 2022, 04:18 PM

It would be helpful to see the others besides the naga form from a side angle as well.

apolaki · 6th August 2022, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

It would be helpful to see the others besides the naga form from a side angle as well.

Hi David, here are the side angles. Also, I am interested to know about the difference between "Fantasy" creations and legitimate forms.

I obtained these because I liked the variety it shows in Javanese deder. If it were your collection, would these be something to add or pass on?

Also, are there anything unique about them in general?

Thanks again for all your insight

Marcokeris · 6th August 2022, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apolaki

Hi David, here are the side angles. Also, I am interested to know about the difference between "Fantasy" creations and legitimate forms.

I obtained these because I liked the variety it shows in Javanese deder. If it were your collection, would these be something to add or pass on?

Also, are there anything unique about them in general?

Thanks again for all your insight

If was my collection, I would add the last two....but nothing unique. In fact i don't think these 4 deders are a fantasy creation.

Jean · 6th August 2022, 07:45 PM

By "fantasy" I only meant "not standard" and I admit that they are not bad pieces although I would not collect them just because I am a classical collector. The smallest piece has some age indeed

Marcokeris · 7th August 2022, 04:04 PM

two fantasies

David · 7th August 2022, 09:18 PM

Still not seeing the "fantasy".

A. G. Maisey · 7th August 2022, 09:52 PM

Really Marco?

Or perhaps you mean in the archaic sense:- "with sense" (Oxford)

Marcokeris · 7th August 2022, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Really Marco?

Or perhaps you mean in the archaic sense:- "with sense" (Oxford)

yes, fantasies hilt are different.. but I think that all the hilts posted till now in this Apolaki post-page are not fantasies.

David · 8th August 2022, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

yes, fantasies hilt are different.. but I think that all the hilts posted till now in this Apolaki post-page are not fantasies.

But why do you identify the hilts you posted as "two fantasies" then?

Marcokeris · 8th August 2022, 07:47 PM

I wrote thinking about what Jean had written. I thought you understood. Instead I was wrong O

rasdan · 9th August 2022, 01:39 AM

Hello Apolaki and everyone,

As far as I am concerned, the two rightmost handles are known as deder lempuyangan from Jogja. Lempuyang is a type of ginger and the hilt supposedly resemble the flower of the plant.

The one with the snake is known as deder sirah sawer. Sirah means head and sawer means snake. So sirah sawer means snake head.

Different people may call the hilts by different names.

David · 9th August 2022, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

I wrote thinking about what Jean had written. I thought you understood. Instead I was wrong O

Thanks Marco. Perhaps a wink would have help me understand you were joking.

Is that first hilt you posted whale bone?

Marcokeris · 9th August 2022, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Thanks Marco. Perhaps a wink would have help me understand you were joking.

Is that first hilt you posted whale bone?

Yes David it's bone. But I honestly don't know what kind of bone

David · 9th August 2022, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

Yes David it's bone. But I honestly don't know what kind of bone

It's a beautiful hilt! The dark markings are what make me think it might be whale bone. See this Maori whale bone wahaika for comparison.

Marcokeris · 9th August 2022, 07:44 PM

Nice piece @@ ...you are right David.. they seem mare made by the same material

apolaki · 9th August 2022, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

two fantasies

Wow thanks for sharing the photos Marco! I wonder if I were to polish my versions would they eventually become halus like yours?

joking of course

Rick · 10th August 2022, 01:20 AM

I agree, it's most likely Whale bone.
We find old Pilot whale (Blackfish) bones in the salt marsh we live on the edge of. These bones have lots of 'pores' visible.
Pilot whales strand on the barrier beach during the Fall and used to wash over into the marsh after storms; now the town comes out with a bulldozer and buries them.
Kino has a kampilan with a whale bone handle and guard.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...+bone+kampilan

5th August 2022, 03:16 AM	#1
apolaki Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 160	4 Keris hilts Hi, I hope everyone is doing well! Can anyone tell me about these Keris hilts? I think they are deder from Java but more carving then I have usually seen on similar ones. Attached Images Last edited by apolaki; 5th August 2022 at 04:55 PM.

7th August 2022, 04:04 PM	#13
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	two fantasies Attached Images

9th August 2022, 01:39 AM	#19
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 369	Hello Apolaki and everyone, As far as I am concerned, the two rightmost handles are known as deder lempuyangan from Jogja. Lempuyang is a type of ginger and the hilt supposedly resemble the flower of the plant. The one with the snake is known as deder sirah sawer. Sirah means head and sawer means snake. So sirah sawer means snake head. Different people may call the hilts by different names. Last edited by rasdan; 9th August 2022 at 05:26 AM.

10th August 2022, 01:20 AM	#25
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Yep I agree, it's most likely Whale bone. We find old Pilot whale (Blackfish) bones in the salt marsh we live on the edge of. These bones have lots of 'pores' visible. Pilot whales strand on the barrier beach during the Fall and used to wash over into the marsh after storms; now the town comes out with a bulldozer and buries them. Kino has a kampilan with a whale bone handle and guard. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...+bone+kampilan

5th August 2022, 10:55 AM	#2
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Recently made hilts in fantasy Central Javanese style....

5th August 2022, 01:20 PM	#3
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Yes! Deder from central Java...one good for patrem

5th August 2022, 02:21 PM	#4
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Marco, Are you Raspoutine actually? I thought he was killed during last century? Regards

5th August 2022, 02:44 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Most are recent Jean, certainly, and the execution is not particularly good, but these are legitimate forms. The smallish one looks as if it has a bit of age.

5th August 2022, 04:55 PM	#6
apolaki Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 160	Thank you all! Is there specific names or representations of each? To me the 2nd hilt looks like a naga? What is the form/design called for the last 2 that are geometric?

6th August 2022, 04:18 PM	#9
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,250	It would be helpful to see the others besides the naga form from a side angle as well.

6th August 2022, 07:45 PM	#12
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	By "fantasy" I only meant "not standard" and I admit that they are not bad pieces although I would not collect them just because I am a classical collector. The smallest piece has some age indeed

7th August 2022, 09:18 PM	#14
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,250	Still not seeing the "fantasy".

7th August 2022, 09:52 PM	#15
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Really Marco? Or perhaps you mean in the archaic sense:- "with sense" (Oxford)

8th August 2022, 07:47 PM	#18
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	I wrote thinking about what Jean had written. I thought you understood. Instead I was wrong O

9th August 2022, 07:44 PM	#23
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Nice piece @@ ...you are right David.. they seem mare made by the same material