Back to Laz Bicagi

gp · 12th July 2022, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahratt

We all know that weapons "travel" very easily.....

So it's not worth "reinvent the wheel" coming up with a new name, instead of the quite appropriate "Laz Bichak"

looking at all the above, I have to agree witth "uncle"/ dzadyushka Mahratt and would like to leave the name as is.

I like the fact that the Armenian name for a nail is used for the type of Surmene kind of dagger but quite well understand its similarity with a sharp 9 inch nail compared to the size of a yataghan type of swords, which folks would have carried in that time in that erea and hence resulting in a kind of humoristic version name given to it.

But than again I might be mistaken and look forward to your input and advise....

drac2k · 12th July 2022, 03:07 PM

Your ire seemed to be raised by his comment "And the only way for a grandmother to become a grandfather is to grow a pair of testicles;.)))"
While this may seem silly to you, the "smiley face," would indicate that it was a joke. You also stated that women would be offended by this comment, but isn't that a sexist assumption on your part that men wouldn't be offended too, LOL.

Interested Party · 12th July 2022, 07:27 PM

I have enjoyed the linguistics and the history lesson. I hadn't realized the Gurians and the Mengrelian peoples were Laz. So Laz were a Circassian people? Or were the terms interchangeable? Were the Adyghe considered Laz? Did the Gurian and Mengrelian bicagi differ as much as their kindjals did? For that matter I have always wondered if the Gurian kindjal was primarily used to settle disputes within the Gurian group, as, I have read, stabbing in the larger Caucasian culture was considered bad manners if the person was in your ethnic group. The same way Vietnam era Marines used an entrenching tool to settle inter-platoon disputes, or in my Dad's generation it was considered bad manners to shoot a friend with a caliber larger than .25 and above the waist? These little etiquette quirks to keep social groups from falling into chaos are interesting and a good segue.

TVV · 12th July 2022, 08:32 PM

Perhaps the posts about the "baba kama" should be separated into a separate topic, where GP can continue his posts about the slavic meaning of "baba" about a weapon from an area with no Slavic speakers. I personally have very little interest in that particular discussion.

Interested Party · 12th July 2022, 09:15 PM

I took it to be he was chiming in on Ariel's "is this the correct name?"

and suggesting there was a possibility of a neighboring influence?

ariel · 13th July 2022, 02:14 AM

[QUOTE=Interested Party;273367]I have enjoyed the linguistics and the history lesson. I hadn't realized the Gurians and the Mengrelian peoples were Laz. So Laz were a Circassian people? Or were the terms interchangeable? QUOTE]

No , they were separate, but likely very close. As I mentioned already, Mingrelian and Laz languages were just mutual dialects.
Around 15 century unified Georgian kingdom collapsed and on its ruins separate small kingdoms and principalities were establishes: Kartli, Kakheti, Imereti, Megrelian, Gurian etc. Perhaps that was the reason for the appearance of “ nationalities”, although there are obvious linguistic differences between several.

Battara · 13th July 2022, 03:43 AM

Folks I am close to closing this thread. I don't care who starts it, but if anyone starts with the personal insults again, and if anyone responds in kind, not only will this marvelous thread close, but the combatants will also take a "vacation". This is your only warning. I have edited this to keep the content.

For those of you who chose to stay on topic and not get sucked in, thank you so much.

Now back to the topic please.

12th July 2022, 03:07 PM	#2
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,294	Your ire seemed to be raised by his comment "And the only way for a grandmother to become a grandfather is to grow a pair of testicles;.)))" While this may seem silly to you, the "smiley face," would indicate that it was a joke. You also stated that women would be offended by this comment, but isn't that a sexist assumption on your part that men wouldn't be offended too, LOL. Last edited by Battara; 13th July 2022 at 03:57 AM. Reason: inappropriate wording and response

12th July 2022, 07:27 PM	#3
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 511	I have enjoyed the linguistics and the history lesson. I hadn't realized the Gurians and the Mengrelian peoples were Laz. So Laz were a Circassian people? Or were the terms interchangeable? Were the Adyghe considered Laz? Did the Gurian and Mengrelian bicagi differ as much as their kindjals did? For that matter I have always wondered if the Gurian kindjal was primarily used to settle disputes within the Gurian group, as, I have read, stabbing in the larger Caucasian culture was considered bad manners if the person was in your ethnic group. The same way Vietnam era Marines used an entrenching tool to settle inter-platoon disputes, or in my Dad's generation it was considered bad manners to shoot a friend with a caliber larger than .25 and above the waist? These little etiquette quirks to keep social groups from falling into chaos are interesting and a good segue. Last edited by Battara; 13th July 2022 at 04:02 AM. Reason: inappropriate wording and response

13th July 2022, 02:14 AM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	[QUOTE=Interested Party;273367]I have enjoyed the linguistics and the history lesson. I hadn't realized the Gurians and the Mengrelian peoples were Laz. So Laz were a Circassian people? Or were the terms interchangeable? QUOTE] No , they were separate, but likely very close. As I mentioned already, Mingrelian and Laz languages were just mutual dialects. Around 15 century unified Georgian kingdom collapsed and on its ruins separate small kingdoms and principalities were establishes: Kartli, Kakheti, Imereti, Megrelian, Gurian etc. Perhaps that was the reason for the appearance of “ nationalities”, although there are obvious linguistic differences between several. Last edited by Battara; 13th July 2022 at 04:05 AM. Reason: for continuity

13th July 2022, 03:43 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,345	Folks I am close to closing this thread. I don't care who starts it, but if anyone starts with the personal insults again, and if anyone responds in kind, not only will this marvelous thread close, but the combatants will also take a "vacation". This is your only warning. I have edited this to keep the content. For those of you who chose to stay on topic and not get sucked in, thank you so much. Now back to the topic please. Last edited by Battara; 13th July 2022 at 04:05 AM. Reason: additional

12th July 2022, 08:32 PM	#4
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,725	Perhaps the posts about the "baba kama" should be separated into a separate topic, where GP can continue his posts about the slavic meaning of "baba" about a weapon from an area with no Slavic speakers. I personally have very little interest in that particular discussion.

12th July 2022, 09:15 PM	#5
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 511	I took it to be he was chiming in on Ariel's "is this the correct name?" and suggesting there was a possibility of a neighboring influence?