Another Black Sea Yataghan out of Africa

[ariel]

Ian,
There are no contentions regarding collective, country-wise, quality of authorship. I was talking about a particular book written by a particular group of authors.

This book was mercilessly criticized on at least 2 Russian Fora for exactly the same reasons that were mentioned by me, plus some I have omitted, plus some I know little about. The only explanations offered in response were that they did not have enough time to research, and the objections from the muzeum to alter contexts of the existing labels.

Certainly, the authors did not engage in any malicious behavior such as willful falsification.

Please note that I have excluded books of Tirri and Astvatsaturian: their books were published before correct information became available. This is inevitable in any scientific endeavor and the authors, albeit mistaken, are blameless.

As to the access to Internet, both in the US and Russia it became available in the mid-1990’s ( see Wikipedia “Internet history in[country]”). I know it personally, since I communicated with American, European and Russian colleagues and searched their respective auctions and Fora for more than 20 years.

[gp]

some more on the Black Sea Yataghan / Laz Bichaq

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DI6HH9iVxI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeLiqM_jZPc&t=10s

concerning the latter:
The caption below the clip is:
OSMANLI DÖNEMİNE AİT KESİNLİKLE GERÇEK ORJİNAL BİR KILIÇ 1800 LÜ YILLARDA ÜRETİLEN BİR SUİKAST SİLAHIDIR TARİHİ ESERDİR NADİR BULUNAN BİR KILIÇTIR DOĞU KARADENİZ BÖLGESİNDE KULLANILMIŞTIR.

Translation: A REAL ORIGINAL SWORD OF THE OTTOMAN PERIOD IS AN ASSASSINATION WEAPON PRODUCED IN THE YEARS 1800 THE HISTORICAL MONUMENT IS A RARE SWORD USED IN THE EASTERN BLACK SEA REGION.

source : Mr. Gene Wilkinson

and on its people(s): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUT-QYYkXMQ&t=35s

[mahratt]

I apologize that this post does not contribute to the development of the topic of Laz Bichak, but I take an example from more experienced forum members.

Originally Posted by ariel

Ian,
There are no contentions regarding collective, country-wise, quality of authorship. I was talking about a particular book written by a particular group of authors.

This book was mercilessly criticized on at least 2 Russian Fora for exactly the same reasons that were mentioned by me, plus some I have omitted, plus some I know little about. The only explanations offered in response were that they did not have enough time to research, and the objections from the muzeum to alter contexts of the existing labels.

Certainly, the authors did not engage in any malicious behavior such as willful falsification.

Please note that I have excluded books of Tirri and Astvatsaturian: their books were published before correct information became available. This is inevitable in any scientific endeavor and the authors, albeit mistaken, are blameless.

As to the access to Internet, both in the US and Russia it became available in the mid-1990’s ( see Wikipedia “Internet history in[country]”). I know it personally, since I communicated with American, European and Russian colleagues and searched their respective auctions and Fora for more than 20 years.

It looks very funny when the author of a book written in 2004 is forgiven for his mistakes, and a book written 2 years later but in a much larger "information vacuum" is sharply criticized.
If the moderators do not object, I still propose to compare the number of errors in Tirri's book and the catalog of the Ethnographic Museum in order to close this topic once and for all.

When using Wikipedia data, you should be very careful. Information from Wikipedia and reality are very often far apart.



And on topic - beautiful Laz Bichak from the collection of the Historical Museum (Moscow, Russia). Published in the book Astvatsaturyan:

[ariel]

That is the very same “yataghan of original form” I have mentioned earlier.

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by ariel

That is the very same “yataghan of original form” I have mentioned earlier.

It is reasonable to name an unfamiliar object with a name that is understandable to everyone that suits it and not invent its origin.

[ariel]

Please see my post #20: that was exactly the reason why I hold Astvatsaturian blameless.

[mahratt]

Astvatsaturian simply did not have any information about this item. So she used such an evasive formulation.

[gp]

some more background pics on the people and their history

Lazistan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMiMxHQroJM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUT-QYYkXMQ