Crown Over TG Thomas Gill?

[Radboud]

Originally Posted by Hotspur

That goes back to the possibilities of older crown over initials, or even numbers, as Loades writes.

Cheers
GC

Wholeheartedly agree that your sword predates the 1796 patterns. My point by bringing in the examples from the Dutch Army Museum is to provide conclusive evidence that Loades is incorrect in his assumption that the Crown over a number stamp ordinance marks are for specific sword makers.

I believe that your sword would have been an officer's private purchase so is unlikely to have been inspected by the ordinance board in any case. Which means that the stamp was likely to be an internal practice by the sword maker. Like the Osborn and Jeffries examples Bryce gives.

In absence of other examples and the early date of your sword (quite possibly from the beginning years of T Gills' career), Thomas Gill is a good candidate.

[Bryce]

G'day GC,
In terms of dating your sword, my best guess would be 1770's. By the 1780's Thomas Gill was marking his swords with his "Warranted Never To Fail" slogan. I have an early Gill sword. I will have to look under the langets to make sure it doesn't have a crown over TG mark. To be absolutely sure we need to find one marked with both Gill and the crown TG mark.
Cheers,
Bryce

[Hotspur]

Thanks guys. Apparently this sword has circulated enough that there had been discussion on the mark and Chris Allen has commented that the mark might also appear on blade tangs as well.

Continuing on the timeline sidebar, I guess we would assume the blade would have been produced by Thomas II but it seems weird to me that Mark Cloke's first page linked doesn't list him as a swordmaker in the early trade directories.

I suppose I need to get the rest of that article.

I don't have many resources on English makers, aside from the later trade with the US.

Cheers
GC

[Bryce]

G'day GC,
There is a fair bit of information about Thomas Gill II in Richard Dellar's book "The British Cavalry Sword 1788-1912". He was born in 1744 and died in 1801. According to Richard Dellar, the first record of him in business is in a 1767 trade directory where he is listed as a file cutter and tool maker. He submitted swords to the Board of Ordnance in 1779, so was making swords at least as early as this. The first time he appears in a trade directory as a sword maker was 1783.

Here is a photo of the Crown TG mark on a tang. There are probably many more Crown TG marked swords out there, but the stamp is on the tang so we can't see it. I checked my sword and there is no mark visible on the ricasso.
Cheers,
Bryce

[Hotspur]

Thanks Bryce!

[Bryce]

Here is the smoking gun. Blade marked Gill with Crown over TG on the tang.
Cheers,
Bryce