Vietnamese guoms

[Ren Ren]

I congratulate you on acquiring this excellent sword! Thank you so much for showing us all the photo of your unique item! Never before have I seen anything close to the same.

Now about the sad thing - there are still no specialized books on the historical weapons of Indochina. At least in European languages ​​and Vietnamese. The articles published on Mandarin Mansion are in my opinion the best choice for today, but they are not yet able to see the whole picture.
For this reason, the opinions of connoisseurs of Vietnamese weapons are largely subjective. And mine too.

Originally Posted by werecow

The "new" one has a (what looks to me like) ivory grip, with an admittedly somewhat ugly old repair (it looks like it was once split and then glued back on rather crudely; the whole guard could use some cleaning). I suspect the lion(?) head pommel may once have had inlays in the eyes. It looks a little bit stoned with that smirk.

I believe that the scabbard was made much later than the sword, in the first third of the 20th century. And the sword itself belongs to the beginning of the 19th century. The difference in the decor style of the silver details is striking to me. At the turn of the 18-19 centuries. in Vietnam, more precisely in its southern part, in the possessions of the Nguyen clan, there was a strong influence of France. And this is noticeable in the design of the sword - a protective bow and pommel in the shape of a lion's head. But this is not a copy of the French lion, but the mythical dog-like lion Nghe, often depicted as a protector and gate guard. On the hilt of the sword is a pattern of curls or tongues of flame pointing upwards. This is an interesting detail - in Vietnam there is a beautiful legend that when Prince Nguyen Phuc Anh, the future founder of the imperial Nguyen dynasty, was in exile on the island of Phu Quoc, his faithful companions and guards were dogs of the unique local breed Phu Quoc Ridgeback, which have a strip of wool along the ridge directed from tail to head. In memory of these dogs, the ornament adorns the back of sword hilts.
While on Phu Quoc Island, Prince Nguyen Phuc Anh negotiated successfully with King Taksin of Siam. Later, the Nguyen army, together with the Siamese troops, fought against the Tai Son rebels. Thus, at the end of the 18th century, the Vietnamese and Siamese were quite familiar with each other's weapons and it is safe to assume that a mutual exchange took place. And when, after some time, fighting began between them for influence in Cambodia, military trophies also appeared.

[werecow]

Thanks for your insights, Ren Ren, very interesting! And nice to hear that it's an interesting piece of course.

I'll see if I can get my camera to function properly tomorrow in daylight, and take a few more close-up pictures. Perhaps you'll notice more things I'm blind to.

[werecow]

Well, 95% of my pictures were blurry again, but here are some of the less disastrous ones.

It's clearly undergone significant repairs to the grip. Something I failed to notice before is that it looks like the guard may have been broken and welded back together at one point. The sides of the crack line up well so I assume that the parts do belong together. It looks like the plates were riveted to the guard as can be seen in the pictures; the rivets are missing in one corner, leaving two little holes.

Some measurements: I can't quite get my calipers between the plates on the guard but the blade is about 2.6cm broad and 9mm wide at the base, then (distal) tapers quickly to about 5mm 10cm down the blade, then a gradual taper to about 3mm at the end of the fuller, then down to 1mm near the tip. The length of the blade measured from the tip in a straight line to the shoulders is about 67cm. From the tip to the peen is 81cm. 87cm total inside the scabbard. POB 10.5cm from the base of the blade. I don't have good scales here so unfortunately I can't give an overall weight.

The scabbard grips the blade well enough to hang suspended from it by friction without support when I'm holding the grip of the sword, but not well enough for it to hold the sword in when I hold it upside down while holding the scabbard.

I wish I had a better replacement ring for the scabbard as it looks a little silly. }|:oP

[Ren Ren]

Thank you very much for these photos!
I see that this sword had a long and hard life. But he is still a strong and cheerful old gentleman
In my opinion, the blade is quite typical for this part of Indochina. The decor is a stylized image of the constellations. The same or very similar ones were depicted on ancient Vietnamese flags, which, for example, were used in Nam Giao - the ceremony of sacrifice to the Earth and Sky. On Chinese blades, the stylized image of the seven stars of the Big Dipper can often be seen, but this is the first time I see it on a Vietnamese blade. And the style itself is different from the Chinese.
The crack on the handle looks too regular and symmetrical for accidental damage. I can assume that there used to be a decorative insert in this place, for example, a silver stripe.
I have some more thoughts about this sword, but I need to find illustrative material to make my opinion more understandable and justified. This will take a few days or possibly a week.

[werecow]

I look forward to reading it! If you want any more closeups of a specific part of the sword or the scabbard, let me know. }|)

[Ren Ren]

Originally Posted by werecow

I look forward to reading it! If you want any more closeups of a specific part of the sword or the scabbard, let me know. }|)

I apologize, the search process was somewhat delayed. Here are examples of guards with a shield that have a clear French influence.

And also an example of a hilt with an insert, where the curls are facing down. I'm assuming that this hilt was made much later than yours.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Ren Ren

In my opinion, the blade is quite typical for this part of Indochina. The decor is a stylized image of the constellations. The same or very similar ones were depicted on ancient Vietnamese flags, which, for example, were used in Nam Giao - the ceremony of sacrifice to the Earth and Sky. On Chinese blades, the stylized image of the seven stars of the Big Dipper can often be seen, but this is the first time I see it on a Vietnamese blade. And the style itself is different from the Chinese.
.

Thank you for the wonderful input so far, it adds a good deal to what we know about a field about which so little reference material exists.

On this blade, yes, the arrangement is different from the usual Chinese, but I still see seven "stars". As other readers are no doubt familiar with, the typical Chinese arrangement on double-edged blades is a simple zigzag to accommodate the overall shape of the space; on sabers you occasionally see them as inlaid dots, typically between segmented channels along the dorsal profile.

[werecow]

A friend of mine is currently on holiday in Thailand and he just sent me the picture attached to this post, taken at the National Museum in Bangkok. It's interesting to see that there are more of these around with those plates projecting from the guard.

EDIT: My friend is also interested in anything you might be able to tell us about the other swords (particularly the large ones in the back).

[Ren Ren]

The large swords in the background are called trường gươm 長劔 in Vietnamese - a long sword or a long saber. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries they were exclusively ceremonial weapons and many painted and varnished wooden models survive. Here are some pictures from this period.

[Ren Ren]

Originally Posted by Philip

On this blade, yes, the arrangement is different from the usual Chinese, but I still see seven "stars".

I could only find a picture of one flag with constellations. But there were more of them and they were used during various ceremonies.