14th-century samurai sword found in car at Swiss border

fernando · 2nd June 2022, 03:05 PM

True he (the driver) should know about the Customs submission; but that complicates the story even further. Unless he intended (as instructed by his boss) to pass through with the object hidden somewhere inside the car; and the invoice was found while 'routine' searching and not intentionally shown by him to the Customs people. Still i find more plausible to read in the captured invoice about 'attributed' age and price of the sword an not that a Customs officer has the knowledge to figure out the difference between a regular katana and a high end piece from the XIV century 650.000 € worth ... with the due respect for Customs officials.

gp · 2nd June 2022, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

True he (the driver) should know about the Customs submission; but that complicates the story even further. Unless he intended (as instructed by his boss) to pass through with the object hidden somewhere inside the car; and the invoice was found while 'routine' searching and not intentionally shown by him to the Customs people. Still i find more plausible to read in the captured invoice about 'attributed' age and price of the sword an not that a Customs officer has the knowledge to figure out the difference between a regular katana and a high end piece from the XIV century 650.000 € worth ... with the due respect for Customs officials.

Ofcourse you are correct but the customs systems are set up in such a way that there is a clear process to determine the value.
Within the department’s HQ they have experts in all kind of fields but when it comes down to specific items such as this example, there are in each country qualified and certified specialists or socalled “ sworn/licensed assessors” which are being consulted or used for determination of the actual and real market value of an involved item.

ariel · 2nd June 2022, 07:35 PM

Alan,
I see what might have irritated you. This was just poor phrasing on my part and no sarcasm was intended. Simply I know of no collector/dealer having an experience with six-figure deals. This is a hallmark of reputation and knowledge, and that is why I take my hat off to you.

A. G. Maisey · 2nd June 2022, 11:21 PM

Ariel, I am & I was not in the slightest degree irritated, I was only trying to repay compliment with compliment.

Until we get involved in the upper levels of any market, it can be difficult to come to terms with the values involved, and in the case of keris, we are often dealing with gold, diamonds & other precious materials.

There is about one ons, or 100 grams in a silver Javanese pendok.
A gold pendok the same size will weigh approximately twice this.
Javanese & Balinese gold smiths usually work in 22K gold, not 18K and when we get down to 14K they do not even regard that as gold, it is suasa (swoso).

Today's rate for 22K gold, in Australia, is AUD76.192 per gram

AUD76.192 = US55.35

So, a gold Javanese pendok has a weight of +/- 200grams

US55.35 X 200 = US11070

That's just a Javanese pendok, Balinese pendok are much bigger, now add the gold handle, the diamonds, rubies, emeralds.

We haven't even got to the keris blade, the kinatah, the precious wood or ivory.

We have not yet considered the cost of manufacture, nor have we considered provenance.

Michael German was an English antique arms dealer, in 1967 he published a little booklet that was called "A Guide to Oriental Daggers & Swords", in that booklet he states:-

"--- the fine royal kris which recently fetched the sum of $2940 (one thousand & fifty pounds) at Christies Auction Rooms, and was, in the experience of the writer, the highest price ever realised by an Oriental dagger."

There is a photo of this kris in the booklet.

Over the last 30 years I have seen hilts of the same type that is fitted to this Christies keris, sell at auction for in excess of $50,000 --- that is only the gold hilt I'm talking about, not the complete keris.

The +/-3K for the Christies keris is most certainly just a thing of the past these days, but the fact remains that at the top end of the keris market we do not start to get serious until we're into middling to high 5 figures, and the items with high intrinsic value will nearly always go into 6 figures.

Another fact would also seem to be obvious:- with the value of land in my country, & in many others, as it stands at the present time, dollar figures running into 6 are really not all that impressive when we are thinking in terms of investment.

As I wrote in a previous post, $10 will get you a keris.

However when you get up near the top of the market you might need to take a second mortgage on your house. I actually did this once.

ariel · 3rd June 2022, 12:13 AM

Do you still have the kris you had mentioned in your last paragraph? Seeing it would be exciting.

A. G. Maisey · 3rd June 2022, 01:46 AM

The "second mortgage" was associated with a collection, it included several keris, one with a value of $US30k, one with a value of $US20k, and 16 other keris with values between +/-US500 & +/-US5k.

Some of these have been moved to new owners, I still do have one of the higher level keris and a number of the lower level keris.

I do not ever post photos of my personal keris, nor of keris that I might at any time offer for sale, into this Forum.

2nd June 2022, 03:05 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	True he (the driver) should know about the Customs submission; but that complicates the story even further. Unless he intended (as instructed by his boss) to pass through with the object hidden somewhere inside the car; and the invoice was found while 'routine' searching and not intentionally shown by him to the Customs people. Still i find more plausible to read in the captured invoice about 'attributed' age and price of the sword an not that a Customs officer has the knowledge to figure out the difference between a regular katana and a high end piece from the XIV century 650.000 € worth ... with the due respect for Customs officials.

2nd June 2022, 07:35 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Alan, I see what might have irritated you. This was just poor phrasing on my part and no sarcasm was intended. Simply I know of no collector/dealer having an experience with six-figure deals. This is a hallmark of reputation and knowledge, and that is why I take my hat off to you.

2nd June 2022, 11:21 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Ariel, I am & I was not in the slightest degree irritated, I was only trying to repay compliment with compliment. Until we get involved in the upper levels of any market, it can be difficult to come to terms with the values involved, and in the case of keris, we are often dealing with gold, diamonds & other precious materials. There is about one ons, or 100 grams in a silver Javanese pendok. A gold pendok the same size will weigh approximately twice this. Javanese & Balinese gold smiths usually work in 22K gold, not 18K and when we get down to 14K they do not even regard that as gold, it is suasa (swoso). Today's rate for 22K gold, in Australia, is AUD76.192 per gram AUD76.192 = US55.35 So, a gold Javanese pendok has a weight of +/- 200grams US55.35 X 200 = US11070 That's just a Javanese pendok, Balinese pendok are much bigger, now add the gold handle, the diamonds, rubies, emeralds. We haven't even got to the keris blade, the kinatah, the precious wood or ivory. We have not yet considered the cost of manufacture, nor have we considered provenance. Michael German was an English antique arms dealer, in 1967 he published a little booklet that was called "A Guide to Oriental Daggers & Swords", in that booklet he states:- "--- the fine royal kris which recently fetched the sum of $2940 (one thousand & fifty pounds) at Christies Auction Rooms, and was, in the experience of the writer, the highest price ever realised by an Oriental dagger." There is a photo of this kris in the booklet. Over the last 30 years I have seen hilts of the same type that is fitted to this Christies keris, sell at auction for in excess of $50,000 --- that is only the gold hilt I'm talking about, not the complete keris. The +/-3K for the Christies keris is most certainly just a thing of the past these days, but the fact remains that at the top end of the keris market we do not start to get serious until we're into middling to high 5 figures, and the items with high intrinsic value will nearly always go into 6 figures. Another fact would also seem to be obvious:- with the value of land in my country, & in many others, as it stands at the present time, dollar figures running into 6 are really not all that impressive when we are thinking in terms of investment. As I wrote in a previous post, $10 will get you a keris. However when you get up near the top of the market you might need to take a second mortgage on your house. I actually did this once.

3rd June 2022, 12:13 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Do you still have the kris you had mentioned in your last paragraph? Seeing it would be exciting.

3rd June 2022, 01:46 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	The "second mortgage" was associated with a collection, it included several keris, one with a value of $US30k, one with a value of $US20k, and 16 other keris with values between +/-US500 & +/-US5k. Some of these have been moved to new owners, I still do have one of the higher level keris and a number of the lower level keris. I do not ever post photos of my personal keris, nor of keris that I might at any time offer for sale, into this Forum.