A Balinese (?)keris for identification please

Jean · 25th May 2022, 02:04 PM

Hello Sidj,
Please show us detailed pictures of the top part of the warangka (front, rear, and top sides, taken at a right angle) for better identification of the materials.
Regards

SidJ · 25th May 2022, 02:36 PM

Hello,
I am not yet in possession of the keris. It has been described by the auction house as ivory. I know that mistakes can be made though. I will post images when I have it in hand. Apart from the dark patch, ivory seems plausible to me. Of course, it could also be some type of bone. I will be able to tell once I get it.

Jean · 25th May 2022, 08:23 PM

Thank you and yes, ivory materials is very possible but the small pits on the reverse side may indicate bone. By the way the hilt is placed in the reverse position.

SidJ · 27th May 2022, 01:38 PM

What if any are the implications of the atasan being ivory vs it being bone? Can we draw any inferences if it is one or the other? I presume bone is less prestigious than ivory but could this also enable a reassessment of the date of manufacture from the 1970s to earlier in time? Thanks in advance.

Jean · 27th May 2022, 05:34 PM

Yes, an ivory atasan is much more prestigious and expensive than a bone one.
Bone would often decay quickly (more or less depending on the type of bone and the selected piece) so it generally looks older than an ivory one of the same age, except if the ivory piece has not been properly selected

.
See specimens of an ivory atasan (left), and a whale bone one.
Regards

SidJ · 31st May 2022, 05:00 PM

I have now received the keris and having checked it carefully I can confirm the Atasan is made of ivory and not bone. I am unsure if this necessitates any reappraisal of the age of the dress or not.

David · 31st May 2022, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SidJ

I have now received the keris and having checked it carefully I can confirm the Atasan is made of ivory and not bone. I am unsure if this necessitates any reappraisal of the age of the dress or not.

Personally i never thought it was bone, but i could not see any evidence of Elephant ivory (Schreger lines). Now that you have it in hand can you tell what type of ivory it might be? I'm not sure how much adjustment there would be to the age of the dress. It does seem newer than the blade and 20th century. Likely post-WWII, but it is still hard to tell from the seller's photos. The atasan does seem a little stiff in it's form which might point more to a later date than earlier. But these photos are all from odd angles. Maybe you could post some new images now that it is in your possession.

SidJ · 31st May 2022, 05:34 PM

Pics of the keris

27th May 2022, 05:34 PM	#5
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Yes, an ivory atasan is much more prestigious and expensive than a bone one. Bone would often decay quickly (more or less depending on the type of bone and the selected piece) so it generally looks older than an ivory one of the same age, except if the ivory piece has not been properly selected . See specimens of an ivory atasan (left), and a whale bone one. Regards Attached Images

31st May 2022, 05:34 PM	#8
SidJ Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 207	Pics of the keris Attached Images

25th May 2022, 02:04 PM	#1
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Sidj, Please show us detailed pictures of the top part of the warangka (front, rear, and top sides, taken at a right angle) for better identification of the materials. Regards

25th May 2022, 02:36 PM	#2
SidJ Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 207	Hello, I am not yet in possession of the keris. It has been described by the auction house as ivory. I know that mistakes can be made though. I will post images when I have it in hand. Apart from the dark patch, ivory seems plausible to me. Of course, it could also be some type of bone. I will be able to tell once I get it.

25th May 2022, 08:23 PM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Thank you and yes, ivory materials is very possible but the small pits on the reverse side may indicate bone. By the way the hilt is placed in the reverse position.

27th May 2022, 01:38 PM	#4
SidJ Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 207	What if any are the implications of the atasan being ivory vs it being bone? Can we draw any inferences if it is one or the other? I presume bone is less prestigious than ivory but could this also enable a reassessment of the date of manufacture from the 1970s to earlier in time? Thanks in advance.

31st May 2022, 05:00 PM	#6
SidJ Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 207	I have now received the keris and having checked it carefully I can confirm the Atasan is made of ivory and not bone. I am unsure if this necessitates any reappraisal of the age of the dress or not.