Malay keris with very old Javanese blade?

A. G. Maisey · 13th May 2022, 09:56 PM

My error Gustav, other people in this thread have referred to Chenok, I've never heard of Chenok, or Chana, or Chinok & I was going on memory without checking the spelling that others had used first. In any case, all these names are transliterations, so it is possible that we could take half a dozen modern era people who express words in Roman text and get half a dozen different spellings.

I'm not even considering the dress, blades moved all over SE Asia, I'm only looking at the blade, and right now all I have to go on is my very limited experience in respect of a blade that displays the indicators that this blade displays.

Sajen · 14th May 2022, 10:07 PM

Thank you Alan for your thoughts about the blade in question and your very detailed execution.

When I first saw the blade, I was very sure that it was West Javanese or South Sumatran.
After I receive it and hold it in my hands I get my doubts.
I would go with Gustav that it is a so-called "Chenok" blade.

Again, thanks to all who contributed, it is/was a very interesting discussion!

Regards,
Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 14th May 2022, 11:50 PM

Detlef, once interpretation of standardised forms are removed from a dominant governing authority they tend to vary so widely that it becomes almost impossible to identify exactly what the point of either geographical or historical origin is. I'm not thinking of only keris here.

I think that this keris of yours probably falls into that basket.

I've looked at it -- only the blade -- and tried to apply what I think is a fairly solid foundation for analysis. My conclusion might be correct, partly correct, or totally wrong, but I have used a tool that is more than just an opinion based on generality.

This rigidity of logic might not be everybody's cup of tea, but I do feel that any opinion must be able to be supported by more than just subjective beliefs.

Sajen · 15th May 2022, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I've looked at it -- only the blade -- and tried to apply what I think is a fairly solid foundation for analysis. My conclusion might be correct, partly correct, or totally wrong, but I have used a tool that is more than just an opinion based on generality.

This rigidity of logic might not be everybody's cup of tea, but I do feel that any opinion must be able to be supported by more than just subjective beliefs.

Exactly this course of action you use makes your comments worthy for me.

A. G. Maisey · 15th May 2022, 03:02 AM

Thank you Detlef.

13th May 2022, 09:56 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	My error Gustav, other people in this thread have referred to Chenok, I've never heard of Chenok, or Chana, or Chinok & I was going on memory without checking the spelling that others had used first. In any case, all these names are transliterations, so it is possible that we could take half a dozen modern era people who express words in Roman text and get half a dozen different spellings. I'm not even considering the dress, blades moved all over SE Asia, I'm only looking at the blade, and right now all I have to go on is my very limited experience in respect of a blade that displays the indicators that this blade displays.

14th May 2022, 10:07 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	Thank you Alan for your thoughts about the blade in question and your very detailed execution. When I first saw the blade, I was very sure that it was West Javanese or South Sumatran. After I receive it and hold it in my hands I get my doubts. I would go with Gustav that it is a so-called "Chenok" blade. Again, thanks to all who contributed, it is/was a very interesting discussion! Regards, Detlef

14th May 2022, 11:50 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Detlef, once interpretation of standardised forms are removed from a dominant governing authority they tend to vary so widely that it becomes almost impossible to identify exactly what the point of either geographical or historical origin is. I'm not thinking of only keris here. I think that this keris of yours probably falls into that basket. I've looked at it -- only the blade -- and tried to apply what I think is a fairly solid foundation for analysis. My conclusion might be correct, partly correct, or totally wrong, but I have used a tool that is more than just an opinion based on generality. This rigidity of logic might not be everybody's cup of tea, but I do feel that any opinion must be able to be supported by more than just subjective beliefs.

15th May 2022, 03:02 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Thank you Detlef.