Antique luzon blade need help in identifying

Ian · 26th March 2022, 08:38 AM

algrennathan,

I appreciate your desire to identify weapons precisely. However, I think this is ultimately a self-defeating exercise. Many times, there is no single accepted name for a sword or knife. Basically, the name of a sword or knife comes down to what the owner wishes to call it, or what the panday called it, or what the local custom may be at that time. The same blade can have many different names (e.g., see Cato, Moro Swords).

It appears that Atienza was a university student who wrote this paper for his thesis. I have no idea what the quality of education may have been at his institution in Batangas in 1907, but it is very likely that he pursued his task diligently, made accurate observations, and tried to write down the names as clearly as he could. His account appears to be purely descriptive, as many ethnographic studies of the time were. Relatively few Filipinos had the opportunity to go to university in the early 20th C, so he likely came from a relatively affluent family. I have been told that academic integrity was very high in the 19th C and early 20th C (probably higher than today) because the opportunity to attend university was considered a great privilege and honor, which reflected on you and your family.

Having worked closely with Filipino academics for 20+ years, they are overwhelmingly careful and accurate investigators. There are exceptions, of course, but most take great pride in their work and especially their teaching.

Returning to Atienza, I think he recorded his observations as faithfully as he could. Whether his work relates well to current day terms and blade forms is up to others to determine.

chmorshuutz · 27th March 2022, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

algrennathan,

I appreciate your desire to identify weapons precisely. However, I think this is ultimately a self-defeating exercise. Many times, there is no single accepted name for a sword or knife. Basically, the name of a sword or knife comes down to what the owner wishes to call it, or what the panday called it, or what the local custom may be at that time. The same blade can have many different names (e.g., see Cato, Moro Swords).

It appears that Atienza was a university student who wrote this paper for his thesis. I have no idea what the quality of education may have been at his institution in Batangas in 1907, but it is very likely that he pursued his task diligently, made accurate observations, and tried to write down the names as clearly as he could. His account appears to be purely descriptive, as many ethnographic studies of the time were. Relatively few Filipinos had the opportunity to go to university in the early 20th C, so he likely came from a relatively affluent family. I have been told that academic integrity was very high in the 19th C and early 20th C (probably higher than today) because the opportunity to attend university was considered a great privilege and honor, which reflected on you and your family.

Having worked closely with Filipino academics for 20+ years, they are overwhelmingly careful and accurate investigators. There are exceptions, of course, but most take great pride in their work and especially their teaching.

Returning to Atienza, I think he recorded his observations as faithfully as he could. Whether his work relates well to current day terms and blade forms is up to others to determine.

I agree. Even today, there's still some variation in nomenclature and blade profiles in Tagalog region, it's a large area compared to most ethnolinguistic regions of the country. The "hojas tari" illustrated by Atienza is different from its counterparts in Quezon, Mindoro and other Tagalog provinces. Same goes with "kabase" and "dahong palay".

xasterix · 16th February 2024, 02:46 PM

Hello! Just an update on this thread-

"Dahong bolo" and "dahong buho" refer to different kinds of bamboo (kawayan) cultivated by Tagalog farmers, hence they also refer to different blade profiles. Another term for "dahong bolo" is "Tagalog bolo." The blade profile in the Atienza paper is confirmed by oral tradition.

Info credits to a Laguna-based panday who was taught by Laguna elders regarding the bolo-making traditions, Christian Regalario. Laguna is just adjacent to Batangas, it's a known fact that many blade profiles (and terminologies) were shared by the Tagalog provinces.

26th March 2022, 08:38 AM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,362	algrennathan, I appreciate your desire to identify weapons precisely. However, I think this is ultimately a self-defeating exercise. Many times, there is no single accepted name for a sword or knife. Basically, the name of a sword or knife comes down to what the owner wishes to call it, or what the panday called it, or what the local custom may be at that time. The same blade can have many different names (e.g., see Cato, Moro Swords). It appears that Atienza was a university student who wrote this paper for his thesis. I have no idea what the quality of education may have been at his institution in Batangas in 1907, but it is very likely that he pursued his task diligently, made accurate observations, and tried to write down the names as clearly as he could. His account appears to be purely descriptive, as many ethnographic studies of the time were. Relatively few Filipinos had the opportunity to go to university in the early 20th C, so he likely came from a relatively affluent family. I have been told that academic integrity was very high in the 19th C and early 20th C (probably higher than today) because the opportunity to attend university was considered a great privilege and honor, which reflected on you and your family. Having worked closely with Filipino academics for 20+ years, they are overwhelmingly careful and accurate investigators. There are exceptions, of course, but most take great pride in their work and especially their teaching. Returning to Atienza, I think he recorded his observations as faithfully as he could. Whether his work relates well to current day terms and blade forms is up to others to determine.

16th February 2024, 02:46 PM	#3
xasterix Member Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 674	Hello! Just an update on this thread- "Dahong bolo" and "dahong buho" refer to different kinds of bamboo (kawayan) cultivated by Tagalog farmers, hence they also refer to different blade profiles. Another term for "dahong bolo" is "Tagalog bolo." The blade profile in the Atienza paper is confirmed by oral tradition. Info credits to a Laguna-based panday who was taught by Laguna elders regarding the bolo-making traditions, Christian Regalario. Laguna is just adjacent to Batangas, it's a known fact that many blade profiles (and terminologies) were shared by the Tagalog provinces.