Noptes: Polish Batorowka & Zygmuntowka sabres

Rather · 28th January 2005, 01:25 PM

Wolviex, thank you for your generous offer!

I really hope to find the time to see you during my next stay and look forward to be privileged to visit the Arms and Armour collection in your museum. It might be April /May, before I have a chance to come to Krakow the next time, but I will for sure send an e-mail to you well in advance.

tom hyle · 28th January 2005, 03:53 PM

Hmmm; I'm totally disinterested in kings and their pictures and such to tell you the truth; I'm talking about the swords, and of pretty much all being of the same general type; about the knucklebow interlocking with the pommel/buttcap (these are unweighted, yes? Thus not pommels per se; we all get pretty sloppy with that usage, though; it's such a useful word we've expanded its meaning. As a child I would sometimes read pages out of my father's giant Webster lectern-size dictionary, and somewhere in that dang book is a word for a hook for your fingers carved at the end of a handle, not added as a seperate piece like a buttcap or pommel; it's in there, I tells ye (his eyes blaze into the distance, and he clutches some deadly thing with a white-knuckled death-grip....). I think I see a rudimentary form of the commonly seen interlock here; I think its form is intrinsically coming from interlocking with a buttcap rather than a pommel. The Western ones I'd mentioned are knucklebows with flattened ends, pierced for a screw. The end lays against the front side of the weighted pommel, which acts as the nut for a threaded screw attaching the two. I'll see if the pics on that other post are salutary to this concept. I am liable to talk about sabres in your kings thread though; I'm liable to talk about daitos in it, or parang naburs!

Whereever something that seems important comes up, I'm likely to bring it up; such is the mind of Tom.

wolviex · 28th January 2005, 05:06 PM

Tom: it seems that my mind is not such powerful as yours

. Now, when I get through the pages of English-Polish dictionary, I begining to understant what is your point. The construction of European weapon you're writing about is visible in 17th century, in example on small-swords, some rapiers and others edged weapons, isn't it? If so, I think you're right about influences of Polish sabre on modern European sabres, which appeared widely in 18th century, but didn't we discussed it at Radu's thread before? (about sabres development). Anyway, I think that classic Polish hussars sabre could have great influence on modern sabres. But it was just resultant of many eastern, Polish and western European influences, I think...
...or I'm still erroneous in essentia ...

Regards

tom hyle · 28th January 2005, 11:02 PM

That's pretty much what I was thinking about; I'm not sure this particular point was covered in depth in the other thread; maybe I forgot.....

wolviex · 30th January 2005, 09:28 PM

Tom I think you're right that we didn't discuss a problem of influences of Polish sabres on development of modern european sabres hilts on previous threads. Anyway here http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=108 at the bottom of a page is a diagram where you can clearer see how the development of sabres in Europe took place - more or less probably. But of course I don't mind if we dig it deeper just right here on this thread - more, I'll be even very happy

.
Best regards

28th January 2005, 01:25 PM	#1
Rather Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hamburg, Germany Posts: 72	Wolviex, thank you for your generous offer! I really hope to find the time to see you during my next stay and look forward to be privileged to visit the Arms and Armour collection in your museum. It might be April /May, before I have a chance to come to Krakow the next time, but I will for sure send an e-mail to you well in advance.

28th January 2005, 03:53 PM	#2
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Hmmm; I'm totally disinterested in kings and their pictures and such to tell you the truth; I'm talking about the swords, and of pretty much all being of the same general type; about the knucklebow interlocking with the pommel/buttcap (these are unweighted, yes? Thus not pommels per se; we all get pretty sloppy with that usage, though; it's such a useful word we've expanded its meaning. As a child I would sometimes read pages out of my father's giant Webster lectern-size dictionary, and somewhere in that dang book is a word for a hook for your fingers carved at the end of a handle, not added as a seperate piece like a buttcap or pommel; it's in there, I tells ye (his eyes blaze into the distance, and he clutches some deadly thing with a white-knuckled death-grip....). I think I see a rudimentary form of the commonly seen interlock here; I think its form is intrinsically coming from interlocking with a buttcap rather than a pommel. The Western ones I'd mentioned are knucklebows with flattened ends, pierced for a screw. The end lays against the front side of the weighted pommel, which acts as the nut for a threaded screw attaching the two. I'll see if the pics on that other post are salutary to this concept. I am liable to talk about sabres in your kings thread though; I'm liable to talk about daitos in it, or parang naburs! Whereever something that seems important comes up, I'm likely to bring it up; such is the mind of Tom.

28th January 2005, 05:06 PM	#3
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	Tom: it seems that my mind is not such powerful as yours . Now, when I get through the pages of English-Polish dictionary, I begining to understant what is your point. The construction of European weapon you're writing about is visible in 17th century, in example on small-swords, some rapiers and others edged weapons, isn't it? If so, I think you're right about influences of Polish sabre on modern European sabres, which appeared widely in 18th century, but didn't we discussed it at Radu's thread before? (about sabres development). Anyway, I think that classic Polish hussars sabre could have great influence on modern sabres. But it was just resultant of many eastern, Polish and western European influences, I think... ...or I'm still erroneous in essentia ... Regards

28th January 2005, 11:02 PM	#4
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	That's pretty much what I was thinking about; I'm not sure this particular point was covered in depth in the other thread; maybe I forgot.....

30th January 2005, 09:28 PM	#5
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	Tom I think you're right that we didn't discuss a problem of influences of Polish sabres on development of modern european sabres hilts on previous threads. Anyway here http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=108 at the bottom of a page is a diagram where you can clearer see how the development of sabres in Europe took place - more or less probably. But of course I don't mind if we dig it deeper just right here on this thread - more, I'll be even very happy . Best regards