19c Sudanese Sabre?

[kronckew]

'Ersatz', as in substitute' rather than 'phoney', frquently locally made when the government couldn't supply them fast enough. Much Like Bauernmesser, Dussaks, and long 'shepherds knives'/karakulak yataghans from the balkans. (and like ersatz coffee made from chickory when we couldn't impot any) I still like coffee with chickory.

[Jim McDougall]

The ERSATZ denominator for edged weapons is actually often quite broad in remote and frontier regions, especially in colonial situations. In the tribal areas of Africa in many cases it was actually prevalent as natives used the blades brought in with trade more often than using those locally produced. Also many foreign weapons were constantly repurposed.

In colonial New Spain, the 'machete', commonly termed the espada ancha, was a locally made cutlass type hanger made in imitation of those typically seen in maritime use. While these were indeed 'ersatz' in a sense, in the early days they were often fashioned from cut down Spanish dragoon broadsword blades until local blacksmiths began making heavier blades.

The first picture is a traditional style espada ancha; next is an 'ersatz' version which uses a 'briquet' hilt, a three bar cavalry guard, and the Spanish dragoon broadsword blade which is cut down.

Examples of these kinds of weapons are a genre of collecting virtually of its own, and the examples are intriguing elements of history in many if not most cases.

[David R]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

The ERSATZ denominator for edged weapons is actually often quite broad in remote and frontier regions, especially in colonial situations. In the tribal areas of Africa in many cases it was actually prevalent as natives used the blades brought in with trade more often than using those locally produced. Also many foreign weapons were constantly repurposed.

In colonial New Spain, the 'machete', commonly termed the espada ancha, was a locally made cutlass type hanger made in imitation of those typically seen in maritime use. While these were indeed 'ersatz' in a sense, in the early days they were often fashioned from cut down Spanish dragoon broadsword blades until local blacksmiths began making heavier blades.

The first picture is a traditional style espada ancha; next is an 'ersatz' version which uses a 'briquet' hilt, a three bar cavalry guard, and the Spanish dragoon broadsword blade which is cut down.

Examples of these kinds of weapons are a genre of collecting virtually of its own, and the examples are intriguing elements of history in many if not most cases.

Love these examples.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by David R

Love these examples.

Thank you so much David!
Ive been sort of crazy on espada anchas most of my life, growing up in Southern Calif. they were around and saw them long before I knew what they were. I've done research on them for more years than I can say, and there are still far more questions than answers

[David R]

I can see it as being a very rewarding area of collection and research, to do with of a largely ignored part of American history! Please keep posting.

[ariel]

I think we have to distinguish between “attribution’ and “habitation”
The former indicates belonging to a certain ethnic military tradition, the latter to the place it was used.
We can see pulwars in Central Asian museums, British swords in Indian arsenals, Portugese, Spanish and French blades on Moroccan nimchas, one of the internet auctions recently sold a a classical Ottoman kilij with obviously latter engraved Sanskrit innscription on the blade. Egerton included Ottoman yataghan into the plate with Nepalese weapons ( likely, it might have been bought there).
How are we to attribute them? IMHO, we may desribe them as “ Moroccan nimcha with a repurposed French ( or other) blade’’, “ Ottoman kilij with ( later) usage in India “, etc.
It will be no different from “Afghani khyber made in India” or “South Indian sword with North Indian handle” etc.
Elgood taught us that a significant proportion of Indian swords were in fact repurposed and mixed creations of different parts and age The same likely appies to weapons from other parts of the world. Weapons traveled, had been repaired repeatedly, acquired new parts, all in different locations.
The only attributable part of Wayne’s sword is its Sudanese scabbard. The rest is a village blacksmith’s rendition of a “european” sword with uncertain atribution.
We can safely call it “ An impovised East African sword” ( simply because to its geographic proximity to Sudan) , but its accurate atribution is incredibly difficult and have a very high chance to be erroneous.

No critique or offence was intended, it was just an attempt to mark the boundaries of our ignorance. We see highly respectable and knowlegeable researchers and dealers dating their examples as “ 17-19th century” or “Likely Turkmeni- repaired Persian shamshir”. My minor quibbles are nothing in comparison.

[Jim McDougall]

Heres another saber with likely Sudanese association, having notable Ottoman styled hilt of pistol grip form. The blade is of shamshir form and the scabbard has what appears to be the Sudanese flared point as typically seen on those of kaskaras. The strap is of the type used also on kaskara.