Identifying a Keris

milandro · 30th January 2022, 07:00 PM

No doubt some of the more expert forum dwellers will have a different take, but to me seems to be a Balinese kris.

I have been told by many that even very well known expert experts find them difficult to tell apart and that one expert may say one thing while another may say the opposite.

The quality appears to me to go under the better kerisses and perhaps I could venture into saying that this could be a Kulit Semangka pamor.

Several people whom “ wash” krisses with warangan ( I have met 3 until now very well known in the Dutch kris community) told me that having a loose ganja is not unusual and that, in fact, it may indicate that the kris has been washes a number of times therefore, old but that too, as everything else may be faked (although I doubt that it is in this case)

This can be restored.

Sajen · 30th January 2022, 08:31 PM

Would agree, an old Bali or Lombok blade.

A. G. Maisey · 30th January 2022, 11:16 PM

It is a Bali style blade, but whether from main island Bali, or from Lombok island colony, it is virtually impossible to know with any certainty.
This doubt persists even when a blade is in the hand. There are some indicators that might make one lean towards either Bali or Lombok, but we cannot ever be certain. With this keris I lean to Lombok, but I would never debate it.

No real opinion on age, but 19th century would be a safe guess.

Pamor is wos wutah (& all related variations of the same words)

The imperfect gonjo fit could have been there since the blade was made, or it might have been knocked out of its original position, the blade does not look old enough for erosion to have caused the gap.

jagabuwana · 30th January 2022, 11:19 PM

Is this a pin? Or am I seeing things?

Interested Party · 31st January 2022, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jagabuwana

Is this a pin? Or am I seeing things?

Looks closer to silver solder in that picture. The other pictures don't show the shiny spot.

A. G. Maisey · 31st January 2022, 07:19 PM

Reflected light?

shadejoy · 31st January 2022, 08:49 PM

Thank you all very much for your insights!

@milandro & @A. G. Maisey - Thank you for your input! The pamor looks like spots of smokes going up. It may be just me, but the pattern looks sparse compared to typical Kulit Semangka or Wos Wutah outthere.

@jagabuwana - Great eye! I didn't realize it. My suspicion was mostly on gap of the ganja. It looks like a spot weld and only on one side ..odd.

Thank you again for the discussion!

A. G. Maisey · 31st January 2022, 09:13 PM

The pamor is typical Bali, it is sparse, Balinese blades that use these random patterns are seldom as dense as Jawa blades.

A spot weld would be extremely unusual, are you able to do a good close up?

I've run this image through PS but I cannot get a good enough image to determine anything.

30th January 2022, 11:19 PM	#4
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 291	Is this a pin? Or am I seeing things? Attached Images

31st January 2022, 08:49 PM	#7
shadejoy Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Massachusetts, US Posts: 67	Thank you all very much for your insights! @milandro & @A. G. Maisey - Thank you for your input! The pamor looks like spots of smokes going up. It may be just me, but the pattern looks sparse compared to typical Kulit Semangka or Wos Wutah outthere. @jagabuwana - Great eye! I didn't realize it. My suspicion was mostly on gap of the ganja. It looks like a spot weld and only on one side ..odd. Thank you again for the discussion! Attached Images

30th January 2022, 07:00 PM	#1
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 497	No doubt some of the more expert forum dwellers will have a different take, but to me seems to be a Balinese kris. I have been told by many that even very well known expert experts find them difficult to tell apart and that one expert may say one thing while another may say the opposite. The quality appears to me to go under the better kerisses and perhaps I could venture into saying that this could be a Kulit Semangka pamor. Several people whom “ wash” krisses with warangan ( I have met 3 until now very well known in the Dutch kris community) told me that having a loose ganja is not unusual and that, in fact, it may indicate that the kris has been washes a number of times therefore, old but that too, as everything else may be faked (although I doubt that it is in this case) This can be restored.

30th January 2022, 08:31 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,343	Would agree, an old Bali or Lombok blade.

30th January 2022, 11:16 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,058	It is a Bali style blade, but whether from main island Bali, or from Lombok island colony, it is virtually impossible to know with any certainty. This doubt persists even when a blade is in the hand. There are some indicators that might make one lean towards either Bali or Lombok, but we cannot ever be certain. With this keris I lean to Lombok, but I would never debate it. No real opinion on age, but 19th century would be a safe guess. Pamor is wos wutah (& all related variations of the same words) The imperfect gonjo fit could have been there since the blade was made, or it might have been knocked out of its original position, the blade does not look old enough for erosion to have caused the gap.

31st January 2022, 07:19 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,058	Reflected light?

31st January 2022, 09:13 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,058	The pamor is typical Bali, it is sparse, Balinese blades that use these random patterns are seldom as dense as Jawa blades. A spot weld would be extremely unusual, are you able to do a good close up? I've run this image through PS but I cannot get a good enough image to determine anything.