Mortuary Sword - first use of the term?

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by corrado26

Many thanks Jim for your answer and interesting contribution. I checked the type of my sword with help of the book of A.V.B. Norman and found the pommel of my sword on page 243 as "pommel 14", dated to the third quater of the 17th century. This dating would very well fit to the portrait on the blade of a uniform bearer with allonge wig. This type of wig certainly was out of fashion at the time of the funeral of the French king Louis XV. in 1774. The equivalent hilt is shown on page 199, drawing 112 dated from the 1640s or even earlier. As Norman writes "their presence in many English country houses, armouries, and some churches as well as the similarity of their decoration to that found on what collectors call "mortuary swords" which appear to be exclusively English, suggest their country of origin".

Very well noted Udo. With small swords, as we are aware, while they were around through 17th c. with their use extending through the 18th, but by the time of the funeral of Louis XV their character had changed.

Note the full pas d'ane rings, by 1770s these had become more vestigial and flatter, virtually eliminating the original purpose. The blade on this seems of early form but the rebated blade tip is curious.

With blade engravings of course, they are most often commemorative with these kinds of figures such as the wigged head. I think of the hussar figures with panoplies of arms etc. are just a popular theme on many saber blades. Many of these (as well as on plug bayonets) have the 'viva pandour' phrase.

In Norman's quote (as cited) he is referring to the range of variations of the so called mortuary hilts we are discussing, which of course are unrelated to these 'mourning' small swords' , and reiterating that they were in fact used by both sides in the English Civil wars and related campaigns.

Your comparison in well placed however in noting the somber tone in the sobriquets of these swords

I would add here that the evolution of the 'mortuary' sword corresponds with the early development of the Hounslow sword phenomenon in England in which German smiths were established in the outskirts of London in the 1630s.Here they were fabricating various swords which apparently included these 'mortuary' swords.

Here is one I think may be from Hounslow before the shops were taken over by Cromwell.

This has a typical ANDREA FERARA blade from Solingen, revealing that not ALL such blades went to Scotland, but indeed reached England and Hounslow where a notable number of Solingen blades augmented those produced by the German smiths in those shops.

[Triarii]

Jim,

Apologies for any confusion - I was referring to the bandoliers being commonly used by Victorians but rarely in the mid C17th, the one example excepted.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Triarii

Jim,

Apologies for any confusion - I was referring to the bandoliers being commonly used by Victorians but rarely in the mid C17th, the one example excepted.

No problem, thank you for the correction.

[Triarii]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Very well noted Udo. With small swords, as we are aware, while they were around through 17th c. with their use extending through the 18th, but by the time of the funeral of Louis XV their character had changed.

Note the full pas d'ane rings, by 1770s these had become more vestigial and flatter, virtually eliminating the original purpose. The blade on this seems of early form but the rebated blade tip is curious.

With blade engravings of course, they are most often commemorative with these kinds of figures such as the wigged head. I think of the hussar figures with panoplies of arms etc. are just a popular theme on many saber blades. Many of these (as well as on plug bayonets) have the 'viva pandour' phrase.

In Norman's quote (as cited) he is referring to the range of variations of the so called mortuary hilts we are discussing, which of course are unrelated to these 'mourning' small swords' , and reiterating that they were in fact used by both sides in the English Civil wars and related campaigns.

Your comparison in well placed however in noting the somber tone in the sobriquets of these swords

I would add here that the evolution of the 'mortuary' sword corresponds with the early development of the Hounslow sword phenomenon in England in which German smiths were established in the outskirts of London in the 1630s.Here they were fabricating various swords which apparently included these 'mortuary' swords.

Here is one I think may be from Hounslow before the shops were taken over by Cromwell.

This has a typical ANDREA FERARA blade from Solingen, revealing that not ALL such blades went to Scotland, but indeed reached England and Hounslow where a notable number of Solingen blades augmented those produced by the German smiths in those shops.

Apologies for resurrecting this after such a long gap, but is there any evidence that there were two side guards on this? I can't see a screw hole on the pommel or signs of the recurved bars sitting on the inner side of the guard. To me that one, with its very fine boat shape gives the impression of a kind of evolution from the AVB Norman Type 91 hilts.

[Jim McDougall]

MORTUARY sword term: Perfectly explained by Stuart Mowbray in his "British Military Swords: 1600-1660", 2013, p.180.


"...perhaps a more believable explanation for the 'mortuary' name would be that 19th c. antiquarians , who were the first people to appreciate these weapons, often purchased them from churches where they had been painted black and used as part of funereal (i.e.mortuary) displays. In a tradition that dates back to ancient times, the arms of Britains Civil War heroes were deposited by their loved ones in places of worship.".

"...memories never last forever, though, and during the 19th c. countless rural English churches were in the process of 'spring cleaning'-pulling down all those dusty, rusty and altogether too depressing funeral achievements to make room for more modern decorations".

These helmets and swords still bearing black paint made it to the antiques markets, and of course with thier somber provenance gained the Victorian sobriquet 'mortuary' swords. Strangely it does not seem helmets or armor were called this.

The notion of the 'death mask' of Charles I came later, as an explanation for the term, and as has been shown, is easily defeated as these varied types of figures (many of the 'green man' type) existed as motif long before the Kings execution in 1649.

[corrado26]

Hi Jim, I think this is the best and after all logical explanation one can get. Many thanks!

[fernando]

Amen .

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by corrado26

Hi Jim, I think this is the best and after all logical explanation one can get. Many thanks!

Thank you Udo! Kudos to Stuart Mowbray on this amazing book which is thoroughly researched and the photography of the examples is breathtaking, a virtual museum tour. I often browse through this book as the detail and conversational demeanor of the text is like being with a friend touring a museum.